Read Firehouse.com article on two-hatters by Paul Peluso
Press release issued today from the IAFC:
The Board of Directors of the International Association of Fire Chiefs adopted the following position statement during the IAFC Board meeting on October 30 in Washington, D.C. The position was developed in conjunction with the IAFC’s Volunteer & Combination Officers Section:
The International Association of Fire Chiefs (IAFC) has a long history of encouraging individuals to serve their communities and their nation. Based upon this principle, the IAFC Board of Directors supports the rights of volunteer, career, or paid-on-call firefighters to serve multiple organizations or communities. Each man and woman who chooses to live a life of volunteer service does so out of a selfless and personal commitment. It should not be incumbent upon any organization to dictate or influence the extent of this deeply personal act.
As an independent leadership organization, the IAFC also recognizes the right of organizations (including trade organizations, unions and volunteer fire departments) to adopt a constitution and bylaws and set rules and qualifications for membership, as long as their membership requirements are neither illegal nor discriminatory. However, in the interest of public safety, the IAFC would recommend that no membership organization – volunteer, trade, or paid – should restrict membership and the right to serve in multiple organizations or communities.
When the exercise of the responsibility to serve a community involves choosing the fire and emergency service, the IAFC supports the rights of each individual to choose to serve in any capacity, whether in a volunteer, paid, or paid-on-call position. We further believe that individuals should have the right to engage in secondary employment, single or multiple volunteer activities, or a combination thereof on their own time so long as they do so in accordance with applicable laws. As the fire and emergency service’s premier leadership organization, we urge the members of the service to remember their esteemed place in their communities and act with respect, integrity, common sense and decency toward each other. When conflicts arise, we encourage fire and EMS departments – and other affected organizations – to work together in a constructive manner to resolve these conflicts at the local level.
In the 21st Century, the requirements and demands on the fire and emergency service have grown tremendously. While new and terrible threats have emerged and natural disasters continue to grow in frequency and intensity, our cities and towns are under extreme financial pressure. In this perilous situation, it is essential that those in the fire and emergency service maintain working relationships with individuals and organizations that protect our communities, even when there are differences of opinion or approach. It is equally important that we continue to collaborate and provide a united voice for the fire and emergency service. The IAFC encourages the entire fire and emergency service community to focus on our first priority, which is to provide for the safety and security of our citizens.
October 2008
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bravo!
Good…too bad the IAFF won't back this, but then again, I guess that kind of defeats part of their purpose.
Did you consider anything less when the IAFC membership is largely compromised of two hatters?
No thats something to write home about.
IAFC doesn't have a dog in the fight. They are a fraternal organization comprised mostly of volunteers, and as an organization, they have little or no representation from combination departments. Frankly, I'm not impressed at all with their statement, and I'm a little disappointed that they would even stick their nose in the issue in the first place.
This is one of those issues that will never go away or change. Just accept it the way it is and leave folks alone.
I've got no challenge with a career firefighter riding the bucket as a volunteer at a volunteer house in a neighboring juristiction, however I do have one question:
This being a major metropolitan region, what exactly would happen to all of these two-hatter volunteer chiefs in the event of a large-scale major regional disaster?
That's right…their employer would order them back to duty, forcing them to abandon the suburban community they represent as a volunteer chief at the precise moment when their community needs a volunteer chief the most…they'd fold up their toys and head off to their paid jobs downtown, leaving their suburban volunteer stations leaderless.
Great idea.
Look…If Nick the plumber or Vinnie the Freeloader want to play volunteer chief, that has no negative effect on their community in the time of crisis when the community needs him most. Worse thing would happen is a few drains might not get unclogged or a sofa might not have a warm body snoozing on it…but if Mikey the Wagon Driver downtown wants to play volunteer chief, then he will most likely abandon his vollie department right when they need him most.
Apparently, the geniuses at IAFC didn't think their "endorsement" of two-hatting all the way through. What a pity for the citizens we serve.
That very issue, of a major event requiring a two-hatter to leave the home community due to employer needs, was mentioned in a 2007 pandemic presentation:
http://firegeezer.com/2007/11/13/pandemic-staffing/
Yeah, a shameless plug. How about the two hatter who also is a reservist?
Mike
Hey! They can all can go AWOL from their career gigs and put their volunteer departments ahead of everything else.
It kind of kills me when you work with guys who volunteer on their off time and all they talk about is their squirel-stuff. We've had to say "Enough!" several times and make a "no VFD talk" on the job. It's like they care more about doing it for free than providing for their families. A few other questions that I would like answered are…. If there is no diference in career and volunteer firefighters, why are most career firefighters line officers, if not chiefs, in their VFD's. And, when in the VFD Officer's position, why do they act like the people they complain about at work?
In the end, the IAFC choose to not take aposition with thatpolitical mumbo jumbo they issued. They released the basic "Rodney King" can't we all get along statement. Thats not leadership, its politics
Well if the IAFF says you can't, then god himself has spoken. How dare you challenge them, they know everything just ask them. I just wish the Teamsters and the AFL-CIO would do to them as they have done to others. Have them kicked out of their union for taking away other union jobs with their part time work as electricians, carpenters, plumbers, drivers and every other job their “union brothers” hold. With 269 days of free time each year one would hope they are not using it to put the other unions out of business!!!!
Good point about vollie talk on the job. Some other things I tired on listening to on the job are:
car racing
football
cheating on wifes / girlfriends
talking on their cell phones
doing side jobs while on duty
their kids
etc, etc, etc
I think everyone should sit down at the beginning of the shift and decide what everyone can talk about….
I guess it would be pretty quiet place to be.
IAFC
I'm A F**king Coward!
"Well if the IAFF says you can't, then god himself has spoken. How dare you challenge them, they know everything just ask them.
Let me clear up one misconception here. the International Association of Fire Fighters in no way said you CAN'T do it. What they said that if you CHOOSE to do it, then you CAN'T be a member of their organization, That's all.
EVERY organization has the right to limit their membership in that manner. It is NOT discrimination. It is NOT employer-based retaliation. It is NOT "unconstitutional" or an abridgment of "free speech", as some of you two-bit firehouse lawyers continue to claim.
Plain and simple, it IS an organization saying that if you choose not to abide by their principles, then you cannot be part of their organization, and you cannot share in the benefits that association brings.
Frankly, IAFC has no say in the matter whatsoever, and frankly, it is meddling for them to stick their nose where it doesn't even belong.
Finally, the IAFC takes a management position. I thought they had become IAFF light. Go figure!
No surprise… The IAFC is composed of mostly volunteer chief's anyway and they are not gonna cut their own throats.
The talk of IAFF members working as plumbers, carpenters, etc taking away union jobs is BS. As an IAFF member I also own a home repair company. However, I do not work as a carpenter, plumber, etc on a Union job site. Those that are IAFF members and volunteer in an another IAFF's local are wrong to do so. If you want to volunteer, go somewhere where there is no IAFF Local.
What about all of the free lancing union workers who are in the same area? What about other companies who do smaller scale jobs who employ union workers? If you are worried about union jobs, join the trade union yourself. Otherwise, you are doing upon others the same thing you claim I am doing to you.
If I want to volunteer, I should do so where there is no local…OK, now lets use the same logic on you..how about if you want to be a career union person, you go to a department that has no volunteers? Both statements are silly and childlike.
If you own your own home improvement company than you are a two hatter. And if you are not paying union dues to the plumbers or carpenters union than you are non-union scab labor! The only difference is You do it for your own financial gain and others do it to help their community. And if you want to follow true union traditions, buy union made american automobiles, and only hire union contractors to work on the union hall..
"EVERY organization has the right to limit their membership in that manner. It is NOT discrimination. It is NOT employer-based retaliation. It is NOT "unconstitutional" or an abridgment of "free speech", as some of you two-bit firehouse lawyers continue to claim."
Your right. Its not these things.
Its the beginning of socialism.
"Its the beginning of socialism."
Um…sorry to interrupt you, but before you throw terms around like you actually have a clue what you are talking about, I suggest you go look up what the word really means and see if it actually fits the arguement. Otherwise, you just end up sounding like a total idiot who watches a little too much FoxNews and listens to a little too much WMAL, and has become hopelessly addicted to spouting the koolaid catchphrase du jour.
[We now return you to the regular uneducated ranting already in progress]
"If you own your own home improvement company than you are a two hatter. And if you are not paying union dues to the plumbers or carpenters union than you are non-union scab labor!"
Funny, but I really don't see the plumbers and carpenters unions running to your side on that silly arguement. Unfortunately for you, unless you are a member of one of those unions, you really don't have a dog in the fight, do you?
Why are you fools on the watchdesk suddenly so "worried" about the welfare of the plumbers and carpenters? Aren't you the same idiots with all the "NoBama" banners on your logins? Great union support there, skippy!
The plumbers and carpenter unions are adults…they have strong unions…if it is a problem for them, I'm sure they can handle it without having a bunch of vollies slinking around trying to pick fights for them.
Whose side do you REALLY think union members are gonna take in this hissy-fit? YOURS? Get real!
Seriously, you sound like a bunch of little girls when you try this line of attack. Dry your tears and put on your big girl panties you Sallies.
Let’s clarify some terminology. A scab refers to a union member crossing a picket line or workers who are willing to accept terms that union workers have rejected and interfere with the strike action. Nobody has been or is on a strike so this term is being used incorrectly. A “two hatter” would be a union member working part time doing his union job. An example would be a union plumber working part time as a plumber (outside of the union work place) or a union firefighter volunteering as a firefighter. A non-union individual is more than welcome to volunteer where every they please. If a union firefighter feels compelled to volunteer then that individual should do so in an area that does not have an IAFF local. What is comes down to is, do not work for free on a union job site as a member of that union.
The whole two hatter issue is easy to resolve… all volunteers should quit. That's right. Give the IAFF exactly what they want. Give it all to them. Then, when the average wage for a career firefighter gets down to oh say around 20K because the public tax dollars only go so far and the cities and counties can't afford to fund all the positions they need… maybe the IAFF will be more open to volunteers helping out in their communities. Let's face it there are only so many tax dollars to go around and most of that goes to the police… that should be pretty obvious in today's world where ff's are getting laid off… stations getting shut down…
Again, the greed of the IAFF will lead to the organizations demise. Unions screw themselves all the time because they are greed mongers, always want more, its all about taking… Just break out a history book and take a look.
I would love to hear the rhetoric should the city say, NO Firefighter will have any other part time job, volunteer job, cannot leave the city without prior permission… after all if we have major regional emergency, we have to make sure everyone is available when we need them… Hell the Potomac would overflow with tears.
Quite frankly, you people make me sick. I used to be a very proud firefighter. But today, I am embarrassed to be associated with you (volunteer and career) who call themselves brothers. I get tired of trying to defend stupid.
Grow up and get a life. The life you want, not the one someone else is always trying to tell you live.
I agree with the last blogger,it has become an embarrassment to the fire service reading all these post.
There are some justified concerns that could arise from so-called two hatters mainly from their career side;
A department with a 20 year retirement or a 24/72 hour work shift based on a large part on the stress of the job and life expectency after retirement. as an employer i can argue against your such reasoning if you are volunteering on your days off, Therefore a 24/72 hour work schedule or 20 year retirement is not necessary for a firefighters health.
Can your claim under the heart lung bill be affected if you have in the past per say filed some type of exposure report at your volunteer department.
Look around you, its probably 5% of the people that keep this career/volunteer animosity burning, the other 95% are just going on about the business of being a fireman.
The IAFF in York has 62 members getting pay checks. The FD is thier part time job. They all work other jobs keeping cizens from getting jobs, When they have a fire they call the county volunteers in to put the fire out. RETRIED IAFF MEMBER
I can see a problem with a career FF volunteering as an officer in another area, especially if there is even a remote possiblity of mutual aid between the two. The IAFFs stance is designed to drive a knife into what they precieve as the beginning of the end of the volunteer system…and it might have limited effects..some of them may not have been forseen by the IAFF union bigwigs. But I warn you right now, the next 2 to 3 years are gonna be extremely tight budget wise. Many borderline communities are likely to examine the possiblity of returning to a full volunteer system or at least a hybred set up. Is NOW really the right time to rock this boat? Being a member of the AFL/CIO in a non fire union, I can also see the union plumber/electrician arguement. If you are all that pro-union, then STOP the off day jobs and businesses that compete with your fellow AFL/CIO union members. Put your money where your mouth is…and prove you really believe the union commie talk..or that you only walk the union line when it lines your pocket and screw everybody else!
I'm not sure why people are still arguing this subject, simply put; membership in the IAFF is a choice. The member chooses to join; there are plenty of career fire fighters that are not members of the IAFF Local that represents them. Should an eligible career fire fighter choose to apply for membership they are made aware of the Local's Constitution and By-Laws. It is their individual choice to become a member of that organization. They are made aware of the consequences of violating those By-Laws. It's the same for Volunteers; they are made aware of the Constitution and By-Laws of their organization and the consequences of violating them. I don't understand why those who are clearly not members of the IAFF feel compelled to make comment on the internal matters of that organization. For those of you that are still debating the Constitution and By-Laws of the organization of which you are a member. Stop complaining and do something about it from within that organization, or resign from membership. It's fairly simple, it's about choice.