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From the Quakertown Fire Company website.
Previous coverage: Police file no charges; Quakertown Volunteer EMS complains about being run off the road
An incident on September 13 in Hunterdon County, New Jersey has received much attention in fire and EMS circles. That was the case where Quakertown Fire Company’s Rescue 91 passed an ambulance from Quakertown Volunteer EMS as both units were heading to an accident scene.
While police filed no charges, their report indicates the driver of Rescue 91 was forced to suddenly come back into the ambulance’s lane to avoid hitting a vehicle coming toward them. That vehicle turned out to be one of Quakertown Fire Company’s own members responding to the firehouse. This move forced the ambulance off the road into a ditch. The ambulance made it to the scene and the crew sought treatment after taking the accident victim to the hospital.
The two organizations have been involved in an ongoing dispute over providing EMS for the community.
Until now, other than a statement acknowledging the incident, Quakertown Fire Company has not given its version of what happened. The original stories were based on information from Quakertown Volunteer EMS. Now, the fire company has posted a more detailed statement on its website. Here it is:
On Sunday, September 13th, the Quakertown Fire Company (“QFC”) was involved in an unusual incident while responding to a serious motor vehicle accident in Franklin Twp. The Quakertown Fire Company has cooperated fully with local authorities.
The QFC would like to provide critical facts associated with the incident and accident that have thus far been absent in the media’s published accounts:
Franklin Twp Police requested all units to “expedite” one minute after dispatch, not as the rescue truck was “passing the ambulance” as has previously, and erroneously, been reported. The word “expedite” is not a word used daily and is never a command utilized in a light manner in the field of public safety; in all cases it is used to intensify the response of inbound units. To be sure, it implies that a very serious situation is occurring and all efforts are to be made to heighten an already significant response by police, fire, and emergency units.
The QFC vehicle involved in the incident was a specialized Rescue Truck equipped with life-saving hydraulic rescue tools and stabilization equipment which were used immediately upon the truck’s arrival at the accident scene; this unit is not a standard fire engine. Quakertown Volunteer EMS has none of the certifications, training, supplies or life saving equipment to perform critical rescue operations and patient care in a motor vehicle accident.
QFC is the Township government-authorized lead agency in Franklin Township for fire and rescue incidents. The Quick Response Unit (“QRU”) has nothing to do with this motor vehicle accident.
There was no “race” to the scene between the two agencies as the QFC Chief and Deputy Chief, both NJ certified emergency medical technicians, were on-scene performing patient care and incident management prior to the incident between the Rescue Truck and the Ambulance.
The rescue truck was following the ambulance for almost a mile before attempting to pass the ambulance after the ambulance failed to yield. Prior to passing, the rescue operator, and front-seat officer, repeatedly attempted to signal the ambulance to pull over with air horn and siren blasts. Significantly, the officer of the Rescue Truck on the evening of the incident referenced, attempted to reach the ambulance on the radio, to confirm the ambulance driver knew where he was going and to make a request to pass. The ambulance did not answer direct radio call from the Rescue Truck.
The rescue truck crew reported that the ambulance was traveling well below the posted speed limit and appeared to be lost. Investigation indicates this may be accurate as the crew chose to take a route that was 5.5 miles long via Quakertown Rd to Cherryville Rd to the accident scene. There was shorter, more efficient route to the critical accident scene that was 2.6 miles shorter, almost half the distance from their building that the ambulance did not utilize.
The driver of the Rescue Truck, Quakertown Fire Co. Past Chief and current Captain, John Schutts, has been a firefighter for 20 years and was an EMT for 14 years. He has operated emergency vehicles without incident for 17 years. He has zero points on his license. He has been in emergency services for 22 years. He has not had an accident in 22 years.
Over the past two months since the Quakertown Volunteer EMS (“QVEMS) hired more than six paid personnel, crews have had considerable difficulty in finding emergency scenes throughout Franklin Township while working on the QVEMS ambulance. In a little more than three weeks time, QVEMS crews have had three documented incidents of getting lost while responding to residents’ calls for help.
The Quakertown Fire Company is located in Franklin Twp, Hunterdon County and covers all of Franklin Twp, and portions of Union and Alexandria Twps. The 55-member volunteer non-profit provides fire suppression, fire prevention, specialized rescue and emergency medical services to the community.
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I'm sorry, but I saw nothing in this statement except an attempt to rationalize an instance of poor driving on the part of the fire crew. A more mature response would have been to accept responsibility and move on.
The plot thickens…..stay tuned, this soup is gonna get good.
SOmebody needs to get pictures of the roadway where this happened. An ambulance and fire truck going code 3 side by side and the ff coming the other way doesn't see them. Is it a curve a hill?
In PA all civilian vehicles are required to pull to the right side if the road when an emergency vehicle approaches, just not into a ditch. Sounds like theres a little fault to all the way around…but bottom line–if it ain't safe to pass-it ain't safe to pass. Thank God everybody walked away from this near tragic incident so they can fight about it afterwards.
I will leave you all with this small tidbit of wisdom:
Be part of the solution, not part of the problem.
Peace & Love, Peace & Love!
Kinda Funny, Go to their website, in the top of their banner is the phrase:
"In the center of it all"
Great BIO on the crew, but backup and look at what happens if the squad never makes it to the scene because of an accident while passing the ambulance. Take it one step further, what happens to that BIO if he hits and kills the firefighter responing to the station. There is shared blame here, except it and move on.
What is the common goal? Save property and life!
I don't care how long the driver of the resue truck has been doing this….I don't care that he was a past chief…I don't care that the crew "tried" without success to raise the ambulance crew on the radio. The fact is, you didn't get them on the radio and you DID NOT have permission to pass. In my neck of the woods, the response is either "emergency"(lights and sirens) or routine (no lights and sirens). There is no "expedited" or stepped up, or priority one response. Get it together and admit that the rescue truck screwed the pooch on this one.
I was wondering the same thing as one of the above posters has stated. Why didn't the ff responding POV pull over to the side of the road and stop well in advance of the approaching apparatus? Whether the vehicle was passing and in his lane or not he, [ I would hope ] should know enough to pull over and stop until the units have passed him and then proceed; especially if it may be a two lane roadway. Didn't he realize that the responding units were using this route to get to the scene so he would probably be on the lookout for them since he had not passed them yet. It would be nice to be able to get a picture or description of the area where this happened, as the other poster has stated. As far as ignoring, [ not recieving ] radio traffic from one vehicle to the other is a matter that should be looked into also.
Well, if you read some comments from the locals in the other story Dave has, this happened in a no passing zone, and a blind hill.
Sounds like someone thought he was more important than an ambulance for transport.
So let me see if I get this straight:
Pass in a no passing zone;
Run the ALS transport into a ditch;
Blame the ambulance driver for being lost.
So they were going to transport the patient on their extrication tools to the hospital?
Maybe I'm missing something, but aren't we all part of helping the public, each in our own way?
Quakertown Volunteer EMS has none of the certifications, training, supplies or life saving equipment to perform critical rescue operations and patient care in a motor vehicle accident.
I understand the rescue part, but a BLS ambulance isn't able to provide patient care? What, was the squad running with their heavy rescue techs/paramedics?
There was no “race” to the scene between the two agencies as the QFC Chief and Deputy Chief, both NJ certified emergency medical technicians, were on-scene performing patient care and incident management prior to the incident between the Rescue Truck and the Ambulance.
If there was no race due to EMTs already on scene providing patient care, then why was the response expedited? Are your chief and deputy chief incompetent? Sounds like you didn't trust them to do their jobs until help arrived, so you needed to drive as fast as possible.
Sounds in general like a poor show by the driver, keeping the bad blood between the two groups flowing. What a disgrace.
Lets see …… Stupid is the only word that comes to my mind. How about everyone just do their jobs and provide for the citizens and keep your cry baby antics in the firehouse.
But I waned to be a hero and get my picture in the paper.
APPARATUS/VEHICLE/HIGHWAY Firefighter Close Calls
Squad Passes Engine on Run – Close Call
Friday, September 4, 2009 – Our engine was the third piece in for an accident with reported entrapment and possible cardiac arrest. The first due engine and our utility were already on scene removing the victim. As our engine was approaching the left turn onto a 2 lane secondary road, stopped in the crossover of a 4 lane primary highway, where there is a curve and a hill. The heavy squad of the first due company went around on the officer's side at high speed without stopping to check for traffic. The driver of our engine had just stepped on the accelerator after he had stopped and started to proceed just as the squad came around him. He immediately stopped our engine because it was very clear the squad had no intentions of stopping. Had our driver continued one of them would have gone into the ditch or the opposite lanes of travel? Let alone possibly severely damaging our only engine that we have no replacement money for in the first place. By the way, the squad was running understaffed with only 2 people. There were 2 ALS ambulances already on scene as well as an understaffed engine and our utility and numerous other fire/ems personnel. There was no need whatsoever for this type of action since the victim had already been removed from the vehicle and CPR had been started.
Lessons Learned:
Risk vs. benefit: risking lives to do nothing is totally un-acceptable. Just as one apparatus driver used poor judgment in operating his vehicle, there was another driver who was only released to drive 2 months ago, used what he had been taught and made a very good decision.
If they want to make a big deal about the ambulance taking the long route, then why was this an issue? The rescue shouldn't have followed them and they should have been on different routes!
This is one of the most self serving justifications for misconduct that I have ever seen. Utter Horse manure!
This is an unfortunate event, one that has implications well beyond the two agencies involved.
Having read several of the articles it appears to the public at least, that we have two rival agencies that want to grab all the attention for themselves and care nothing for the comunity they serve. We can all bash the operator of the "rescue" vehicle or we can ridicule the operator of the ambulance. Why don't we put the blame where it belongs, with the managers of both organizations. According to the reports this "feud" has been going on for some time, and it has finally reached a point that we are experiencing difficulty on the road, does it make sense that the managers of both organizations might want to get this situation under control before these two moronic organizations create another incident that portrays Fire& EMS in a negative manner
Get over yourselves QFC – not acceptable!
The EMS Crew apparently took a "longer" way to the scene and appeared lost. I HOPE, whoever is throwing stones about taking the long route, wasn't a different "company" located close to the EMS company ALSO taking the "long route" and making the lost statments. FF/EMT – Volunteer
If there was a shorter route to take, why didn't the FC Rescue take that route and leave the ambulance to take the long way around?
This sounds like a big pissing contest over who was wrong. First off if both vehicles were responding to the same incident there was no call for one to pass the other one period end of story. that being said lets turn this incident into a positive thing that we can learn from. The fire and EMS service throughout the country needs to have a culture change to one of safety. We kill on average 100+ firefighters a year, thats 1000 per decade folks. Lets learn from this incident, thankfully nobody was killed. We need to use this oppurtunity to review and revise our response policy, is there a way that this could have been avoided through regular policy review and strict enforcement of the policy. I do understand that both agencies involved are volunteer but that is no excuse for neglegence. Everybody out there on the street reguardless wether they ride a fire truck, ambulance, law enforcement cruiser, is out there for the same mission; To protect the life and property of thoes in need. If we become another car accident while enroute to the origional call we have become a seperate problem and no longer are able to help thoes who called for us but we may need help ourselvs thereby stealing resources from thoes who needed us in the first place. Come on Folks lets ensurs that EVERYBODY GOES HOME!!!
Why can't we all just get along?
this is just another incident in a long line of F.D. vs.E.M.S. i think it is a joke we all do our part in saving life and property as we were trained to do some of us do both ends so why is it we never learn from our mistakes and continue our "little battle" between depts. why dont we do what we do in a team effort to get the best ending to a bad situation i think they should sit down and knock off their little nonsense before somebody really gets hurt
come on guys, get out the fifth grade already. People first, period! You can fight behind the enginehouse after all the civilians are taken care of.
I think it's time to grow up.Start acting like professionals and not like WACKERS.Doesn't matter,career or vol.,you have a responsibility to the taxpayers of your town and this is behavior on both sides is inappropriate.So both of you had better get together,burry the hatchet,and give the residents of your town the cooperative public safety services that they deserve.
THE DRIVER OF THE HEAVY RESCUE NEEDS TO BE DISQUALIFIED! THIS BULLYING ON THE ROAD WAY WITH AN AMUBLANCE IS TOTALLY B.S.! WHEN RESONDING TO AN EMERGENCY YOU DO NOT PASS ANOTHER RESPONDING VEHICLE UNLESS YOU GET THEIR PERMISSION, AND A PASS BY IS GIVEN OVER THE RADIO WHEN AND WHERE IT IS SAFE. THERE WAS NO BENEFIT HERE EXCEPT THAT SOMEONES LITTLE HEAD EGO GOT IN THE WAY OF HIS BIG HEAD BRAIN! STUPID IS AS STUPID DOES…THE STATE SHOULD INVESTIGATE THIS QUAKERTOWN FIRE DEPT…OBVIOUSLY A BUNCH OF "QUACKS"!!
Did the On Star Operator have a request from the people on scene for the Rescue Company to deliver some Jimmy John's Subs that they thought it was necessary to pass the ambulance? Seriously, your number one priority is to arrive on scene safely. This is NOT your emergency! Don't make matters worse by driving stupid and then causing an emergency of your own. As a Firefighter I'm embarrassed by their "justification" of passing an emergency vehicle en route to the same incident. As a person with 20+ years behind the wheel of emergency vehicles, I have never so much as passed a civilian vehicle that doesn't yield for me because a short delay is better than not making it at all.
In the Quakertown incident it seems obvious that the bad blood is a contributing factor.
There are two reasons that I feel the ambulance should have yeilded right of way to the FD unit.
1.The ambulance was lost and traveling slower than posted speed, they should have moved over and then followed the FD unit to the scene.
2. The ambulance must have been in communications with someone and realized that extrication was needed and that medical personell were on scene. Until extrication was accomplished they would be assisting with stabilization until full assessment and treatment could begin upon removal of the patient.
From the description of the location of the incident I feel the engine driver showed poor judgement in his decision to pass.
He was justified in passing but should have waited for a safe opportunity to do so.
As this plays out on line and in the news papers, the general public that funds both the EMS and Fire/Rescue operations are finding that there funds are being spend on what appears to be a Keystone Cops comedy of an Emergency Response System. Both organizations need to sit down and work out their differences before someone IS hurt or worse. To not provide the best possible care to the general public when needed is a travesty, and totally unacceptable. I am an Ex-Chief and active 20 yr member in a volunteer department that provides both EMS and Fire/Rescue. I haven't seen it all and don't know it all, but I do know that what has been stated about this incident is unacceptable at any level. With a Chief and Deputy Chief on scene any question with regard to patient condition and entrapment should have been answered while both EMS and Fire/Resue units inroute. And response adjusted based on the Chief's call. I didn't see any mention of the actual response time for each unit. But I would bet a few minute delay in response time would not have had any negative affect with the patient care. Because it really is ALL ABOUT THE PATIENT CARE!!!!!
Its hard enough driving with lights and sirens and watching traffic in front of you and on the sides, you shouldn't have to worry about being PASSED while responding lights and sirens. I was passenger in a Ambulance that got stuck behind some cars in the left turn lane, the driver decided to go to the right ( straight lanes) to get around them, well the Engine behind us had that idea too but didn't wait to see what we were going to do and came way to close to hitting us. Our state law specifically states it is not legal to pass a emeregency vehicle with lights and sirens activated. This includes other Public safety vehicles. The people involved know who is at fault, bad decisions have bad endings…… Stay safe
IF? as said by FF close calls.com that the Pt. was in Cardiac Arrest there is OOOOOOOOO% survival rate from uncorrectable trauma. 2. If already out the vehicle and salvageable, Transport is important. 3. If ALS is on scene with BLS. and they can't resuscitate with 2 rounds of drugs, pt. isn't salvageable.
Being a FD Administrator and a medic there is NO evidence that getting the Rescue there sooner would have changed the Outcome. The Town Fathers need to provide more oversight on the FD. This makes the fire service in general look bad.
Yes it is a kinda blind hill, but as far as my opinion goes:
- The ambulance staff is certified to do ems work or they would not be in the ambulance. The same laws apply to the ems and fire companies around the state.
- There is an annimosity between the two companies since the ambulance company was formed several years ago. While the fire company has no ambulances, they do have a heavy rescue vehicle.
- They are both dispatched by the same county communications center, if one was told to expedite – I would think they both were.
- They may have been able to communicate with eachother – howevere county fire is on low band and county ems is on high band, but quite a few apparatus in the county have the ability to communicate on both bands.
I do not want to sound like I am siding with either party, but maybe the ambulance could have pulled over, maybe the fire truck should have passed before or after the blind hill, and hopefully it was not just one crew thinking they are better than the other and neither was giving way to the other. Either way, they are all in the same business of saving lives and serving the public above and before the petty bickering amongst themselves.
In my state as many others it is may disregard posted laws, signs etc with lights and sirens enabled and with DUE REGARD FOR SAFETY. A Rescue vehicle, even smallest ones are at least twice the weight of the ambulance, so this was SAFE? Grow up people, stop making us look like fools out there.
OK it sounds like some people need to put their differences aside and understand that the public deserves better. I myself have been both an EMT and a certified Firefighter for over 10 years and this stuff about made me throw up.
Question 1: Where does it say its ok to pass ANOTHER emergency vehicle going to the same call?
Answer: Its NOT ok to do this What happens if you forced the other vehicle off the road adn both were killed? Would the fire department try to say that the BLS was in the wrong?
GET OVER YOURSELVES and start providing the care your residents deserve. If you cant to that then its about time you walk away from the fire or ems service before you kill one of my brothers or sisters………
This is absolutely stupid the fire dept became a fire district and in order to generate more calls for more money the fire dept started their "QRU" to boost their call volume. The QFD is not a volunteer dept each member is compensated $10 per call they run. Also if the ambulance was "lost" and took a much longer route then needed why did the rescue truck take the same long route. I live in Franklin Township and if I remember correctly it was raining maybe that is why the ambulance was traveling slowly. The QFD has the highest budget than any other fire district in Hunterdon County this includes a township that runs out of 4 fire stations and runs almost 900 calls a year. Maybe it is time that the residents of Franklin Twp take a long look at their fire commissioners and get rid of them.
So I was reading that the BLS unit was lost, BUT the QFD Rescue Truck continued to follow the BLS unit for 1 mile. So that means the Rescue truck was lost also.
These guys think they are the (GOD-SQUAD)of the county,Wrong.
These are the guys that give Fire Departments a bad name.
Firefighters are all the same no one is better then the other,But in the QFD they all think they are better then the other companys in Hunterdon County.
Just to clarify: the "squad passes engine" Article was copied from FF Close Calls. Not the same incident. I just thought it was relevant and ironic since It involved my engine and I was already on the scene. We have a company in our county that is a very close resemblance to the Quakertown thing. They think they can pass other units too. Had some VERY close calls. Rest assured, one of these days departments like this WILL get what is coming to them. Let's all hope nobody will get hurt or killed. However, when I read about firetrucks and ambulances being wrecked (on nearly a daily basis) all I can do id hold my breath.
Did I see one comment that they remember it raining that day…..So you taking a ungodly large vehicle that DOES NOT stop on a dime and do that on a WET roadway….WOW…So that means the Ambo crew was using due regard since it was wet. If I was the officer on the truck I would have dragged the driver out and beat his ass and made him walk back to station then I would have made him turn equipment in after I gave him his discharge notice, Career or volunteer there is no need for that type of action.
Jeez it's mother, juggs ,and speed all over again. except this time its FD and EMS pissing in each others cheerios. I am glad we roll differently out on the left coast. Nobody passes another reponding unit, and if your lost……well we have map books. I know its a novel concept! everybody goes home. period. and really, how much time was saved getting the heavy rescue to the scene by passing the ambulance. 1 minute? probably less. Both agencies share blame here, bad actions happened on both sides. the ambulance was probably going slower than the posted limit and blocking the rescue, and the rescue was being "pushy" i get it the heat of the moment made everyone angry, but ultimately who suffered was the patient(s). shame on both of you! very unprofessional. PA residents: move! you will be safer out West where Fire Departments know customer service………
As the fire chief of another fire company in NJ (close enough to know where Quakertown is) I am embarrassed by postings made by others about this incident. Most have assumed that the fire crew was a bunch of heavy handed thugs who bully other agencies around, they aren't! Also most posters have assumed that the EMS crew was totally competent, lilly white, without fault, and were driving a fully equipted rig, they aren't.
What is more important to the health and life of the injured and all responders– to have an ill equipted BLS rig whose primary purpose is patient transportation arrive on scene first or to have them admit they are lost, pull over and let the rescue that is fully equipted and staffed with trained personnel pass, get to the scene and cut the car up so that the victim can be taken out of the car?
For those whose arguments are based on the routes taken look at google maps, you'll see that the ambulance crew was initially driving away from the accident by taking the route they did while there was a shorter route of about half the distance near their EMS base. They also wouldn't have had to pass the fire house and take the most likely route that the fire dept would take.
From what has been posted by both groups (both in the newspapers and the internet) the most correct posting here has been "The plot thickens…..stay tuned, this soup is gonna get good."
I have to laugh…The chief from NJ says the ambulance crew is unfit for service, If this a paid service they obviously have to be licensed by the state. And if they are not paid service, NJ allows two monkeys to ride if someone let them. The obvious issue is NOT a ambulance crew that may or may not know what they are doing but a rescue vehicle passing them with obvious no due regard for safety.
Having been a fireman for over 15 years in a company in Hunterdon County, it is very apparent that STA 91 that they want to become a paid company taking over all fire and first calls in the district.
They are also very full of themselves which is apparent by their letter in response the news article.
I read their web site and they act as though they are engine 91 in NYC, get over yourselves, YOUR Sta 91 in where, oh yea Quakertown, NJ
So the rescue never got a ticket? Could it possibly be related to the fact that the Quakertown Fire Deputy Chief just happens to be a police officer?
Why did 91 Fire purchase an old BLS rig from 45 (Clinton) Rescue when Franklin EMS has BLS rigs? Indeed, the plot thickens…
Regardless of why the ambulance was driving “lost”, it was running lights and siren en route to an emergency scene, for which (I assume) they had legal authority from the township/county/state. Thus, state law does not permit the fire truck to pass it unless the fire truck has received permission to do so, which the ambulance did not provide. While I agree that the ambulance probably should have pulled off, they were not required to do so. The fire truck operator (and presumably its officer) felt otherwise and proceeded to pass unsafely. Thus, while the ongoing feud may have provided the gun and the specific issues leading up to this incident loaded it with bullets; it was the fire truck that pulled the trigger.