Usually the biggest worry for a fire chief who has gathered the public and the press together for a sprinkler demonstration is whether the sprinkler head is going to activate as promised. Livingston Fire Protection Inc. made sure that wasn’t a problem during Wednesday’s demonstration using two side by side mock dorm rooms at Gallaudet University in the District of Columbia. It operated at just 12 seconds into the fire.
It was the fire on the unsprinklered side that occurred minutes earlier that caused a little excitement and had Chief Dennis Rubin asking for someone to put out the firefighters. At about 3:10 on the video above you will see a plastic barrier melt and drip down in a large flaming clump on the three firefighters who were extinguishing the fire.
It was much more obvious to the audience than to the firefighters themselves that something was amiss. All three had plastic burning on their PPE. It took a little more than 30 seconds before the fires were put out.
On Friday, DC Fire & EMS Department officials confirmed that a sergeant from Engine 6 was burned on the cheek and hand. He spent the night in the MedStar Burn Unit of the Washington Hospital Center and was released.
Also on STATter911 …
- The Rube exits: Listen to Chief Dennis Rubin’s farewell message to the DC Fire & EMS Department. – December 31, 2010
- Dennis Rubin sues DC over retirement. Councilmember Mendelson scoffs at The Rube wanting more money. – December 7, 2011
- DC firefighter paid for not showing up to work for more than two years. Part of a 2008 corruption probe. – December 9, 2010
- More on DC’s new fire chief: WTOP Radio discovers tax problem; Kenneth Ellerbe meets the press; Fire Chief’s Wilmoth questions the appointment. – December 16, 2010
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100 comments are now listed for this story. I think this is a first for Statter's blog as I don't think he's had 100 comments posted for any one article.
for the fireman get well
as for anonymous,man up
put your name to it
paid or vol. its the same.
fire is fire
w.b.v.f.d
capt. g w cisco
"100 comments are now listed for this story. I think this is a first for Statter's blog as I don't think he's had 100 comments posted for any one article."
Actually we have had 100 comments or more a handful of times. The all time record for a single entry is 169 comments when we were the first to post the video of that collision between two St. Louis fire trucks.
Others entries that I found with a quick look that topped 100 are the PGFD ambulance billing controversy, a delayed EMS response in Loudoun, and the Oklahoma Highway Patrol vs. EMS story.
I believe we have posted a little more than 11,000 comments since STATter911.com started in May of 2007. Anyone have an idea which topic (over multiple postings) has received the most comments?
Statter
Dave,
this link is very relevant to the comments on this post.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IU1bzZheWk
What does this video have to do with EMS you idiot? You sound like the typical uneducated DCFD redneck Firefighter who continues to blame EMS on everything because you don’t know how to fight a fire. Just look around to some of the finest fire departments around this country that run first-rate fire and EMS services to their community. Why can’t DCFD do the same thing…because we have these back woods uneducated FF’s who can’t even past a basic EMT class.
Anyone ever heard of not letting the fire get behind you? Come on… I hope everyone recovers from their injuries and the damage quickly…
Truly a violation of live burn standards; no backup line, no safety officer, second fire officer without proper PPE. We damage our own credibility with stunts like this. Sadly the sprinkler message was lost as the focus turned to firefighters on fire. Lastly who designed this thing with a combustible plastic draft curtain ?. As for the firefighters best wishes for a speedy and full recovery.
DO NOT LET YOUR CHIEFS KILL YOU
I try to make a point not to say anything hurtful or arrogant on these posts mainly because we are our own worst enemy's on destroying our brotherhood. With that said, I wish all a speedy recovery, and urge all of us that nothing is routine and please think before you act.
Anonymous said…
What does this video have to do with EMS you idiot? You sound like the typical uneducated DCFD redneck Firefighter who continues to blame EMS on everything because you don’t know how to fight a fire. Just look around to some of the finest fire departments around this country that run first-rate fire and EMS services to their community. Why can’t DCFD do the same thing…because we have these back woods uneducated FF’s who can’t even past a basic EMT class.
Wow. For someone who wants to talk about being uneducated- People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. I believe you meant to say "pass a basic EMT class". Oh and the Youtube video that was posted, isn't necessarily in reference to EMS or Fire. It's about beating a dead horse. And for your edumacation tonight, I want you to Google "beating a dead horse" and finding out for yourself what it means.
But since I wouldn't want you to hurt yourself, I went ahead and did it for you. According to wikipedia, "Beating a dead horse" means "Flogging a dead horse", (alternatively "beating a dead horse" in some parts of the Anglophone world) is an idiom that means a particular request or line of conversation is already foreclosed or otherwise resolved, and any attempt to continue it is futile.
Have a nice day.
The firefighter who was burned happens to be my best friends father and if he is anything like his father it wasnt his fault it was a fire the unexpected will always happen and it did so everyone who is saying fire them and their idiots your oviously cocky and that is the most deadly downfall of firefighters
Its funny all the people saying they should not go in. UMM let me guess Nova or AA county fire want to be's. just keep wishing you were DCFD!!!
Okay Okay… I have a been a Volunteer for twenty years,and paid for ten and while watching this video my first question was "why make entry into an open trailer?"
Paid or unpaid we have the same training like it or not, and paid or unpaid… YOU cannot dispute the fact that was a dumb move. Have we not been trained to monitor our surroundings? Who's idea was the plastic anyway???
The only difference in a live burn drill is that WE light the fire all the same precautions still need to taken. While we may not need to employ a fast team for a container fire we should still think far enough ahead to have members in gear with a back up line!
THINKING will keep you alive brothers, two simple words: SIZE UP.
No one person there could have predicted the plastic would melt?
I would be will to place a bet the PROBIE did!
Now there's way too many comments to read all of them, b/c i don't have that sorta time but the one comment I want to say is about basic firefighting. If that had a been a fully inolved room, in real life i mean, I would hope the firefighter on the nozzle would sweep the doorway from FLOOR to CEILING to extinguish as much fire as he could before moving in on it. As you can see he didn't sweep the CEILING and it was still burining above them as they moved in on it, no condoning the fact that they moved in on a 4'x6' box I'm talking about real life scenarios. The officer should have noticed that and told the nozzleman to accomplish that before moving in on it. Don't always assume your nozzlemen are competent in this day and age some are just there for the paycheck!! Back to the basics training is what went wrong here. . . .
It's easy to be a Monday morning QB the big picture here is our guys got hurt. And for all you guys hollaring stupid take a good look inside and think about where you would have been if you OIC was there and if you say (back 50 ft) then you are a coward because we are supposed to back each other!!!!
" It's what you learn, After you know it all that count's". Live by this advice in the fire service and you might just get by!
David Pfeil "Retired" DCFD
My Brothers and Sisters:
This will be lengthy, for which I apologize, but as one of the Elders of our tribe, I must respond to this dialog. It is my intention to be helpful and constructive, bringing a bit less Heat and a little more Light to the discourse. I’ll address three specific subjects: Identity, The Incident and Your Dialog.
(1) Identity: I agree with those of you who said that if you have something constructive to bring to the discussion, you should identify yourself. Since most of you neglected to tell the rest of us who you are and why we should read your comments, I’ll set an example. I bring to the table 20 years in the Fire Service, 17 years as a fire equipment specialist and 10 years as a fire instructor and consultant. I am an adjunct instructor at more than a dozen municipal, county and state fire academies around the country, and a published author and staff member at Fire Nuggets, the online publication dedicated to firefighter competence and safety. And believe me, I’ve made my share of mistakes both on and off the fireground, but there isn’t time or space for that here.
(2) The Incident: First, let me add my voice to those who wish the injured firefighters a speedy recovery from their burns; that’s most important! But Mark Twain got it right when he said, “Why do they call it Common Sense? I find it to be most uncommon.” The evolution was not about how to fight a room & contents fire. It was a sprinkler demonstration. Period. Once the point had been made about how quickly the fire can grow, the prop could have been extinguished with a single nozzle set at a narrow fog pattern from a safe distance without entering the prop. It has nothing to do with bravery or machismo…it’s…well…common sense. Failing to do that, an alert safety officer in full turnout gear could have grabbed the hose, pulled the three guys out, lined them up and extinguished the burning plastic on them in about ten seconds. Simple as that.
(3) The dialog on Dave’s blog about this incident reveals an appalling amount of ignorance, immaturity and anger that frankly is a disgrace to the Fire Service. Whether you are a career firefighter with “issues” about volunteers, or a volunteer or paid-on-call firefighter with “issues” about career firefighters, my advice to you is the same: get over it. Your dialog is an embarrassment to us all. And for the record, the term “professional” firefighter should not be used simply to describe someone who receives a paycheck for what we do. The term best describes one’s Training, Experience and most important, Conduct…both on and off the fireground.
A final thought about writing in general and blogs in particular: if you find your words are so immature, so utterly lacking in benefit to others and frankly so embarrassing that you’re not willing to identify yourself, you might ask yourself why are you even participating? That’s it from here. Be well…do good work…and Stay Safe!
Um, let's see where to begin with this one. First, I have no hesitation to go into any fire I need to. But, this job is dangerous enough as it is. We don't need to do anything that stupid to put guys in danger when it's not needed. It was a demonstration! And yes, the lt. did go into the little room. It wasn't until he was backing out that the plastic dropped on him. But they should have noticed when the wind blew the fire probably 5 feet out of the room. I don't know about the rest of you, but I remember years ago when I was starting, being taught "risk a lot to save a lot and risk little to save little." There is nothing to save here because it was a DEMONSTRATION! Just a poor example from guys that should know better.
Poor planning on DFC & FC, no safety precautions, fire tactics not so good. Speedy recovery.
This entire debate is not centered correctly. The video is of a live burn demo focused on comparing a sprinkled to a non sprinkled room – it is not a training exercise. The fact that people keep referencing NFPA 1403 shows that there is a misunderstanding of what was actually being done here – this is not firefighter training, it is public education. In order to show the public any similarity to an actual fire it is necessary to provide some type of “wall” on the front of the room and it only makes sense to use the clear acrylic material in order for the public to get a better visual of what happens during a fire. For many of us who do these demo’s on a regular basis one of the first things we should tell the “attack” crew is that all they need to do it direct a stream into the room from the outside – this is NOT an interior attack demonstration! After the 8×8 room is extinguished from the exterior we then have the crew enter and put out any smoldering materials we have left. In comparison when we light the same fire in the sprinkled room and the system activates the firefighters then remove the clear acrylic material which is attached with Velcro, enter the room and use a water extinguisher to put out any hot spots that we might have. It is a shame that this demonstration was not conducted in a safe manner but please do not condemn the process, using this means to demonstrate to the public the effectiveness of residential sprinklers is the best way we can make a difference and hopefully reduce the more than 3000 civilian fire deaths we have each year…
Score one for a bunch of Union Professional Firefighters! Lets see hmm i think i could have put that out without getting the plastic on me> guess why because we did the same demo at our department and the outcome was fire out no injuries no chief without gear on getting in harms way. No reason to move in on this fire pretty stupid.
The rube is smarter than this. If not mistaken he was just the narrater not the IC on this.
And we continue to shine – http://www.wusa9.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=92258&catid=158
Dave,
Enough already. Put it to bed. Its redundant and predictable
Im pretty sure the OIC was not "dragging his man" in by his bottle. He was likely giving him some help moving forward while keeping a hand on his man. Thats what officers should do, in practice and in battle. My Loo is great and always has a hand on us or the line in the smoke and helps move the line forward.
Besides, if you define drag, thats usually a pulling motion, not a pushing motion, tool.
I hope ya feel better buddy. Accept the the script for pain killers, belive me it helps!
Uh, WOW. I'm recently(Vol) FF I certified, so I'm no expert. However, it seems a SERIES of mistakes were made which is utterly surprising from a Chief of that "supposed" caliber. Who can you trust to be with you and, in my case, continue training? Did the very basic of basic fire fighting go out the window on this one?
Safety Officer?????
WEAK!!! RUBIN FOR PRESIDENT!!!
"ANybody on here saying that theres something all that wrong with the bustin of chops on here is wrong makes me wonder if you were the "cry to mommy" probie every firehouse hates. WAH WAH WAH, sombodies gettin called out for F'n up. If you're older than 30 and been in a fire station for more than 5 years, ya gotta learn to just shut your freakin pie hole when the bustin starts, it'll pass so much quicker if you don't enter the fray and try and justify yourself. Just take your lumps and wait for somebody else to screw up tommorrow and the heat gets off you and on to someone else. Jesus H. Criminey, go file a grievance ya panzy."
I'm not sure who this anonymous poster was, but since it infers that this is "just bustin' chops", makes me think that it might have been regarding my earlier post.
Since I'm not a probie and I'm well over thirty, with thirty years in the fire service, I'm pretty sure I know the difference between an angry mob and "bustin' chops". And I'm not at all hiding behind any psuedonym, and I'm happy to discuss the whole incident civilly rather than by calling names and making unfounded accusations.
Maybe instead we need to figure out what went wrong, support our injured brothers, learn from what happened here, and not repeat the mistakes. Then the huge point: move on.