Two New York EMS workers on restricted duty after witnesses claim they wouldn’t help dying pregnant woman at coffee shop near FDNY HQ. Crew may have been on break.

What possible validation could these individuals come up with to have NOT helped this woman?? No equipment–poor excuse, because we are trained to “first respond” at the least! Also, why did it take the 1st ambulance 11 minutes to arrive if they are located so close to this scene?? There are many discrepencies to this story that need to be deeply, throughly investigated! Also I feel these individuals need to be suspended WITHOUT pay pending the investigation! Then maybe next time they will take a harder look at who they are denying care to! They are a disgrace to EMS!!!!

Annon – I mostly agree with you but as for the response time for the EMS Unit, they never said where it was coming from. They were close to the FDNY HQ, that doesn’t mean there are trucks stationed there. Both the EMS Agency and Fire Dept I work for have their HQ seprate from any stations and don’t keep EMS units there. So lets not jump the gun.

Ralph,

I have to agree with you. It doesn’t make a lot of sense and it seems like some crucial information is missing.

I will be on the the lookout for the rest of this story.

Statter

There is only so much that can be done if you are on break with no equipment. And it sounds like if the store would have called 911 from a land line (in stead of a bystander calling from a cell phone) then an ambulance may have been started earlier. Also I think a look at labor laws and union laws needs to be looked at, it may be against the EMTs union contract to work on break. An honestly they are in New York City, I am sure if they did not say no from time to time on break they would be working non-stop (thats probably why they have scheduled breaks, and most of the rest of the ems world does not). So I for one support the EMT’s until proven otherwise. They are innocent until proven guilty, so put away you gallows!

Even if you are not on duty at all why would you not respond to a woman in trouble? If you are at the scene you can at least sit there with her until help arrives. It doesn’t make sense. If you are having lunch on your day off and someone starts choking would you just sit there and watch them die and tell them they can’t have your help because you are not being paid? Tell them they have to wait for the ambulance because you don’t have oxygen on hand or an et kit on hand or whatever on hand?? Then watch them turn hypoxic and die because the ambulance was 10 minutes out so they were without air for 10 minutes?? These two EMT’s didn’t even just sit there and watch they Walked Away and left this woman for dead!!! I don’t give a rat’s …. about union breaks; we have a moral obligation to help someone who is dying …. we aren’t working retail services where we can sit there and say Im sorry I can’t help you find this item because I am on break.
Now I will give the EMT’s this much …. They might not have been able to save her life. They were negligent except for the fact they were not the DIRECT cause of her death. Her heart was, and for that these EMT’s may not be dealt with as harshly as we’d like them to be. But maybe, just maybe, they might have been able to save her or if not her, at least keep her alive enough to save the baby possibly (depending of course on the gestational age) and for that they need to be held responsible.
This story just should never have happened. Eutisha’s family is in our thoughts and prayers.

I’m a big supporter of innocent until guilty, but there were certainly steps this crew should have been willing to take, it doesn’t appear they were diverting from a call as they left with their bagels with a half shmear, and is there a union rep who wouldn’t rather have to speak to the papers about his members always being on-duty for the citizens of NYC.

My family and I spend a few weeks in the Finger Lakes every summer. On more than one occasion I’ve been the first responder on scene, often with my children in the car, and I’ve worked the call until the arrival of the Fire/EMS crews that are certified/licensed to provide care in that district. Often my only gear was a juice box and a towel, but that didn’t stop me from managing the ABC’s, controlling major bleeding, preventing further trauma to the C-spine, or from giving dispatch and the paid crews with the most accurate assessment of the scene that I could.

As for why it took 11 minutes for the dispatched crew to respond, have you ever been to NYC. I’d rather drive through downtown Fallujah, and even if you could get to the scene in under two hours, it is like having every call at the top of a mountain, everything is vertical.

Here in Texas when you screw up and have your certification of license suspended or yanked the State posts that information for the public record.

If we were to clear out the bottom 10% of the deadwood in the Fire and EMS side we would be a step closer to being a sigma six service.

NREMTP,
It is against the FLSA to charge a FF/EMT for taking a lunch/dinner break because they are still technically responsible for providing a service during that time period. I don’t buy your theory on break time. Second, These two could have initiated patient assessment without their “equipment”. I would assume they could scrounge a watch, pen, and sheet of paper for history and meds. I’m just a dumb EMT and I could of handled that.Finally, If they were in uniform they were representing the FD.
I sincerely hope that something is missing from this story. I’m not ready to convict these two yet….but it doesn’t look good.

Why wait for the truth, when most of the people on here are willing to pass judgement on this case without having all of the facts, knowing all of the laws/rules that apply in that jurisdiction, and not one of them having been there. I hope you guys are never on a jury that I am relying on, ‘jury of my peers” yeah right, these comment sections to these stories become instant bashing grounds for those who think they are perfect, and for them to pass judgement on those who they feel are not perfect.

Everyone who signs on for this job is motivated by a different set of values and reasons, yet everyone at some point understands that compassion and a desire to help those in our community drives us to do our jobs. Yet it astounds me that people get on here and get on their high horse and tell everyone else how bad they are at their job and how perfect they are in their own little worlds.

I will reserve passing judgement on these individuals until the department they work finishes their investigation, all the facts come out, and a decision is rendered. No matter what everyone deserves that, except of course those perfect omniscient individuals on here who don’t feel that reserving judgement on these people is the right thing to do.

Good Luck being perfect, I hear that as time goes on that becomes harder and harder to be…

DC Firefighter,

You have some valid points, but I disagree that one should be unable to comment without a full report. I was confident when alerted, that the first tower had been hit on 9-11, that it was a terrorist attack, and I thought it most likely would be perpetrated by Islamic terrorists. I didn’t know that the majority would be from Saudi Arabia, but I did bat 50% in the opening minutes.

If the Post hadn’t reported the story than it is unlikely that Mayor Bloomberg would have felt the need to comment on the case. If this had been a pretty blond 18 year old girl who was a tourist from South Carolina that died in NYC, then I feel confident that it FOX would have devoted their entire line-up to reporting on it. The court of public opinion does cause grease the wheels of justice to move faster than they might otherwise, and that isn’t necessarily a bad thing.

I hate moments like the Duke lax case, but this seems much more like Roger Clemens than it was those boys.

Everyone need to stop for a second. As a long time NYC Paramedic, this is relatively simple to go through. FIRST, let’s preface this by saying IF the eyewitness accounts are true, then yes, this situation is absolutely horrific and needs to be dealt with to the fullest extent of the law. NOW, let’s assume that perhaps there is something missing here. If that is the case, then it is simply put that any information outstanding will come out and if this did not go down the way it has been alleged; then the crews need to return to work in their regular capacity. Public servants are constantly under scrutiny and if the crew is not guilty of any infractions, then they just need to wait until their internal affairs division, also called BITS (Bureau of Investigations and Trials), finishes their inquiries.

Having worked in the NYC city system for more than twenty years, it is sad to say that there are those who come into the system and see the job as a paycheck, a means to something else; and unfortunately, DO STUPID, IMMORAL THINGS. The way the system works is this. Crews are given the “privlige” of a meal break; BUT as always in emergency services; if an emergency drops that they are needed for; the “privlige” of that meal break is suspended. MOST CERTAINLY, if in the course of your break, you witness or are flagged down for an emergency, you are EXPECTED to initiate patient care and that patient is now theirs. This is not a situation where you call for another EMS unit to take the patient. You are a uniformed EMS worker and you have a moral, ethical, professional and operational duty to assume care for the patient. AT NO TIME are you to ABANDON a patient situation. With the numerous witnesses allegedly calling to them, they had the DUTY TO ACT and investigate the issue. From the news reports, this pregnant female went into seizures. For those of you unfamiliar, this COULD BE a common condition with high-risk pregnancies(if this was one) called eclampsia or toxemia. Patients for a variety of reasons will seize during the pregnancy and in fact there is a direct and specific FDNY Paramedic Protocol to treat this, with medications that the Advanced Life Support crews carry, and when administered; can have very effective results. Even if they were just a BLS unit, they should have initiated care and called for ALS back up. IF and let me repeat this, IF this situation occurred as it has been alleged; then this goes far beyond a civil suit, and I hope that Brooklyn D.A. Charles Hynes and his staff seek criminal prosecution. IF there is a missing link in this; then I think I speak for us all when I say we hope that there is something valid and it didn’t go down this way. With numerous accounts, it doesn’t look good. In addition and another very typical incident involving MANY crews in the city and in other EMS venues; it is reported that the crew that responded allegedly failed to bring in all of their equipment.

Let me say on this topic, there is a specific operational procedure that states that the proper equipment be brought to the patient, not left in the ambulance. In these instances, crews do prejudge the call before making patient contact or are just plain lazy. It should not happen; EVER. Just like this crew allegedly walking away. It is beyond comprehension if the first crew just walked way, but not improbable. Some people just don’t care; whether they are lazy, sometimes it could be demographics; who knows. We DO need to let all the factors come out into the open. At the same time, let’s be mindful that numerous witnesses corroborate the story thus far.

Their actions are just as stupid as someone running up to a fire engine or ladder company at the supermarket getting food to cook and telling them that there is a fire; and the crew looking at that person and telling them to call 911. There is NOT nor has there ever been one regulation authorizing the abandonment of patient care because of a food break on break; so in that regard, if this is true; the crew should be hammered. If this is the case, the actions are a direct violation to every concept that we rescuers exist.

To those who are having a cow about “judgement”; keep in mind that we live in a very selfish world. Look at the Bernie Madoff’s and anyone else these days who prey on people’s misfortune. These types do exist in every profession; even in EMS. I have personally taken care of patient’s where crews left them laying there, thinking they would not be caught. It takes a specific kind of schmuck to abandon someone in need; let’s hope that these two crew members are not of that stock. Let’s watch and see how it pans out.

Anybody who defends the two emts are a freakin idoit and I do mean Idiot. Look if u were gettin robbed in broad daylight by a mugger and a uniform police officer just watches you get robbed then goes and finishes his doghnut down the block , then you would be screaming bloody murder. So dont be a Idiot think before you speak and not vice a versa. I would think after 9/11 and the way people actually lost their lives trying to help absolute strangers would kinda set some type of standerd to live by in this city,if not the country .

I guess that in my calls for prudence and patience for the facts of the case to emerge people have taken that I am in some way defending the alleged actions of these individuals. I assure you I am not, nor do I condone anyone who would engage in this type of behavior and bring a bad light upon their department or the fire service in general. If in fact they did what they are being accused of then they should be subject to the full extent of the punishment afforded by their department and the law. I am simply awe struck by the overzealous ignorance that many exhibit in their responses by assuming that if your are accused of something then sure as S*@T you must be guilty of it. Simply by illustrating that sometimes the news gets it right and sometimes they don’t shouldn’t guide how people are presumed guilty until they are proven innocent.

Your right about the 10%, unfortunately to simply set a different standard for them and the rest of the fire service creates in itself a biased playing field. The 10% usually take care of themselves if your give them enough time and opportunity, what’s the old saying ‘just give ‘em enough rope to do it themselves’.

As far as the elected officials go, up here in DC nothing is going to change. Recently, our Mayor blasted two police officers and the police department by outright accusing these two men in public after an officer involved shooting with a teenager. There was a public outcry of injustice, so the Mayor then paid for the funeral of the victim out of his own pocket, and then called for an outside investigation by the U.S. Attorney’s Office to get to the bottom of it. When it was all said and done it turns our it was a justified shoot, and the officers were cleared of any wrongdoing. Was there an apology by the Mayor or other city officials, did the Police Chief who went right along with the Mayor slamming her own two men apologize to her own people, no. Nothing in the form of any sort of apology was made to these two men who were treated as guilty before being proved innocent. It was merely a byline of a news story, which received about 1/100th of the coverage that the two officers being tried by public opinion initially received. Yet until the truth came out these two men were dragged through the mud, and their reputations destroyed in the name of what the press and supposed ‘eye witnesses’ reported. Everyone simply believed what was initially reported, and went along with the story hook, line, and sinker.

Bottom line if you did wrong and were derelict of duty then the facts of the case will show what you did was wrong, and you will have to stand the line and accept the consequences of your actions. But to be judged, tried, and convicted before the investigation is complete and the truth is brought to light is just as wrong.

DC-F,

It was understood that you made a call for a thorough accounting of the facts rather than a lynch mob mentality.

A tough deal for the two DC-PD, and my knowledge of DC politics stopped after Marion Barry was re-elected to city council. I guess Louisiana had Edwin Edwards, and Texas had Tom DeLay, so no one is devoid of inspiring leadership.

Do DC Fire and PD live in the District, or are they residents in the neighboring states. It seems to me they would be quite a voting block.

I look forward to more of your thoughts on other issues.

I only have a legal obligation to help someone if I am dispatched to that call. Morals and ethics may move someone to help another person. There is only so much I can do without the equipment I am trained to use. The general public think that what they see on television for 30 minutes or one hour is what this job is really like. The fact is very few few outside of EMS know what we can do. Annoymous you are a raging tool. My primary goal is to return home to my family at the end of my shift in the same condition or better than when I started. I am not a hero. People die and there is nothing anyone can do about it. All we can do is preform what our duties we a trained to do when WE ARE DISPATCHED to a call. We don’t know any of the facts. Did this pt have any underlying medical problems prior to this event? Just remember a person is innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

Hey annon,

Your post ”
ralph,
where do you work? And what percentage of you shift are you on calls? My bet is less than 80% of the time so a break is not really a break, and you probably dont go out of service for it.
on December 20, 2009 @ 2:21 pm”

Obviously you have NEVER worked in a busy, urban, EMS system. As, 80% of your time is NOT on break. So, go be a hobbyist somewhere else, you have NO clue what urban EMS guys go through everyday.