This was the second incident in as many days where an Explorer was hurt on a fireground – click here
An investigation is under way into why California’s Glen Ellen Fire Protection District apparently allowed a Boy Scout Explorer to be involved in interior firefighting operations. Normally Fire Explorers are allowed inside for mop-up once a fire has been extinguished. The house fire in question was on Thursday on Trinity Road. The teenager was briefly hospitalized with another firefighter due to exhaustion.
Excerpts from pressdemocrat.com article by Bob Norberg:
“Under the Boy Scout rules for Fire Explorers, you can respond to an emergency but you cannot be used in an offensive fire activity,” said Mark Aston, fire chief and director of the Sonoma County Office of Emergency Services.
“Those questions need to be asked of Glen Ellen,” Aston said.
Glen Ellen Fire Chief Peter Van Fleet was unavailable Friday. An official at the station declined comment.
He (Aston) said the teen-ager and the Glen Ellen firefighter were assigned to a Glen Ellen water tender, on which the personnel were involved in the interior fighting of the fire.
“It’s serious matter that this young man was engaged in activities that may have been outside the rules of working as a Boy Scout,” Aston said. “We have to find out who was supervising them and who brought them to the incident and see what exactly took place.”
“We don’t allow firefighters under the age of 18,” Aston said. “I don’t know the rule that the Glen Ellen department has. I have not had a chance to talk to their people.”
“It’s an understanding when an agency provides aid, the people are qualified to the standards that we have established. This was a surprise to me.”
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Doesn’t look like we’re starting out on the right foot again here in the new year. I always like to hear all sides of the story before passing judgment, and will be following this one closely.
But, preliminary information here should make us all remember that that personnel accountability should be at the top of or priority lists. If you can’t take responsibility for adequate supervision of your crews, then please step aside.
Having had a similar experience several years ago when one of our Explorers was directly exposed to all that a double-fatality Easter morning fire has to offer, and the predictable and resulting outcomes, I encourage all fire departments to re-evaluate their ride-along programs and do everthing to ensure that they are in the best interest of the young adult.
As a parent and a fire service leader, I concern is to whether or not they are all fully prepared physically, mentally, emotionally and with the maturity necessary to be directly involved in firefighting and EMS operations.
My experience has been that those who make the strongest argument for hands-on ride-along programs typically have children in the program or are not necessarily looking at the situation from the perspective of what’s right for the child in the long run. Let’s not forget that part — they’re children.
My concern is that too many fire departments are falling in to the trap of accelerating childhoods that much of the rest of society and media are perpetuating. My question is, at what cost?
I started my career as my fire department’s first junior firefighter. They started the program specifically because we were already doing too much on scene.
That was 30 years ago. Let’s just say that things are not the same today.
This is the stuff that keeps me up at night.
If this is an accurate depiction of what occurred, then clearly, the process designed to provide CHILDREN with closely supervised fire department activities, grossly failed.
One would have to question that, if you can lose track of an explorer at the fireground, then what kind of accountability system does that department have?
And I will not jump on with both feet, because in my conversations with some juniors, I have discovered that they are very “strong-willed”, believe that they should be able to “work a fire” and without the review of this matter, the explorer might very well have taken it upon himself to violate the program’s charter.
But still, where was INCIDENT CONTROL?
IMHO.
In our department, Explorers are not even allowed to ride the apparatus. However, at 16, they can become junior members and ride apparatus which is a different set of rules. If they are solely Explorer members, than they shouldn’t even be on the rigs. Sounds like a mutual aid situation where one departments programs differ from the others.
Recent posts of the FFN site revealed that it is not uncommon on the East coast to have firefighter’s involved in incidents who are under the age of 18. They are called explorers or juniors. To expose children to the horrors we see as adults can and will scar these kids for life. Not to mention the risk of injury or death, should the be allowed to be too close to something that can and will go wrong, such as the dumpster explosion in Wisconsin recently that injured several people, including a 15 and 17 year old on scene. Company officers allowing such activities to occur are not liability free here. Civll law and child endangerment issues are alive and well here. If I was the opposing counsel, and a child was hurt, you can guarantee that something unpleasant will occur to you as well. This job is not a game, or something that is “fun”. Instead, it is a serious life and death profession that requires absolute vigilance at all times. Ours and the publics lives depend upon it.
I have first hand knowledge of an explorer program that works. It can change the life of a child(teen). It is the very competant, trained advisors and careful consideration(and training)of the youth that make the difference.
Get all the information then make your decision on the program.
How the hell does a junior firefighter operate on interior operations of a structure fire. That department needs to really review guidelines and if they know them….. then why did this such incident happen. The fire department needs to be sued to the max. Who knows…. wa the kid compliant with required classes or did he get hurt because he has had no training? There ia a thing called SOG’s and SOP’s
I know first hand that sometimes a junior is way too gung ho especially when his/her father is a volunteer aswell. Sometimes it can be very hard to say no! But we have to stick to the rules for their safety and ours.
This was a mutual aid fire. So I am assuming the child worked his way into the fire operation. I know during our mutual fires, I do not know who is trained to what level. It is an unwritten rule that the sending department will send certified personnel. I would be very upset at the mutual aid chief for allowing this to happen.
We have an explorer program, and I have had problems not at a building fire but during other ride-a-longs like a car accident. An explorer program should be a learning (teaching) environment. Operating or even observing during any emergency takes discipline on the explorer to state, “I’m not certified”, and/or takes another able body to babysit during any and all dangerous suppression activity.
It is my personal opinion, they do not belong on the fireground, in these tough economic times and lack of manpower it is not a place to expose a child, nor do most emergencies afford enough quality time to teach anything.
Explorers should be treated like a firefighter 1 student, taught in a highly controlled environment, and not during uncontrolled fireground operations.
To even think of letting someone under 18 into a working fire is an accident waiting to happen. They are not proprly trained and from practical experiance they will not give up working with older people. From achiefs standpoint it was a stupid call and this dept. policies need to be reviewed. It is only a good thing that the outcome was only being over heated.
I am in agreement with most of the posters. How did the explorer get in the building without one of the FF’s saying something. I also am disagreeing with some of the opinions concerning the explorer program and ride-alongs. If you have an explorer program but they are not allowed to go on calls, what is the use of having it. Its like having a tanker or engine on-scene without water or a way to hook up. I did ride-alongs with my stepfather since I was about 12yrs old and it made me love the career. I was allowed to learn basic first aid, how to take BPs, etc. But I was never allowed to fight an fire on the interior, trash yes, but major working fires never. I joined the Navy as a Hospital Corpsman, got EMT certified and once I got out I went though one of the local Fire Academies. But not everyone can handle what they see at a scene.
The explorer/junior aux. program is an excellent program if it is monitored correctly. The riding of apparatus is ok. Our explorers can dress a hydrant as well as any other firefighter. They can raise ladders correctly and safely. They can perform salvage operations when the fire has been controlled. They know where each and every tool and appliance is located on the apparatus. They cannot respond or ride to an incident involving haz mat, they cannot respond to the interstate hiway 95, they cannot respond to the prisons in our town. They cannot be involved in interior firefighting because they are not part of the regular fire dept.. Many of our past juniors (over 18 years of age) have gone on to fire related positions because our elders have instilled in them the desire to be a fireman or woman, EMTs, fire protection engineers, fire instructors in nuclear power plants, fire marshals, chief officers and more. The scout / Junior program will insure that municipalities will have a firefighter candidate thar desires to be a firefighter/Emt. The incident involving the 16 year old should be investigated completely before we are ready to hang somebody. Over zealous and hiding behind a scott mask can conceal an identity of a junior. As an advisor to the Explorer/Junior aux. to our department for the past 10 years I do know that you must be alert to where the yougsters are located. They must have a special piece of turnout gear to identify them immediately.
It is easy to jump to conclusions with regard to this incident, but I think it is critically important that we obtain reliable information before passing judgement. Careers and reputations are on the line here, and I am hearing a lot of slander without any reliable sources being cited. Everything that we know currently is coming from the press, with no comments or interviews from anyone who was at the fire or who is associated with the Glen Ellen Fire District. It is entirely possible that the Explorer succumbed to heat exhaustion as a result of participating in a supportive role, which is within the scope of his position. As for the Explorer program itself, it is a great way to introduce young adults to an excellent career while also keeping them away from drugs and out of trouble. Bear in mind that high school athletes also suffer from heat exhaustion on a regular basis. It is very possible that no one acted negligently here, and that the Explorer just worked a little beyond his physical limits. Let’s wait until we have the FACTS before we start slandering Glen Ellen Fire and the Explorer program.
Juniors at my Pennsylvania department must wear a bright orange helmet at all times to make accountability much easier. They are allowed to go on calls, but they are supervised at all times. This department must decide on what they want for their junior members to work effectivley and safely.
I feel Joseph De Laura and Anonymous, hit it on the head. The explorer/junior program is a great program if managed properly. I have had junior FF for quit some time now. All of my juniors have had CPR and 1st Responder. They have taken wild land and FF1 classes only doing the things allowed by the junior program. Which means they do not do live burns. But when they turn 18 all they need to do is the live burn and take the state exam. The paid crews in my area have nothing but great respect for my juniors. I feel it is all in how the program is managed. The junior program is designed to teach young men and women good work ethics. It’s not only juniors but FF trainee’s that are not allowed in the “hot zone” in my district. Everyone has different colored shields and reflective tape to identify thier status. Bottom line it comes down to following the SOG’s and SOP’s. The junior program is a great program and a many of great FF have come from this program. Lets make sure we have all the facts before we pass judgement. Stay Safe
Which is why I use alot of “ifs” and “allegedlys” when I am discussing a fresh piece of news.
You know good junior/explorer programs that work? That’s great. I support the concept.
What I don’t support is someone’s kid who gets to go with Daddy and the next thing you know, JUNIOR got hurt or killed.
JUNIORS operating on the fireground is NOT the same as a JUNIOR PROGRAM.
I don’t know what was at play in this most recent incident, but when even ONE of them is injured at an incident, a review of policy must be done.
Yeah; it’s all fun and cool until you’re standing over them as they lay in the casket.
We can fix this BEFORE it leads to a death. So, let’s do it.
TCSS.
it is ironic that in maryland a 17 year old can not work in a ditch, but if a ditch caves in a 17 year old jr, member can go in to rescue the person. also 17 year olds can not do roof work or use power saws this is stste law. yet a jr member can. at one time jr members in maryland could not ride or do anything on the fireground. as manpower shrank they started useing them as f/f.
explore type programs also expose them to the same possiblities,in a paid dept. it might not be as much danger of this happening as in a vol. dept.
I was asked to sit on a task force for the IAFC with the purpose of developing a “best practices guide” for junior firefighter programs last year. That report, titled: “Opening New Doors, The Silver Ribbon Report, Guidelines and Best Practices for a SUccessful Youth FIre Service Program” is now available and I would like to offer the publication to any department or individuals who may be interested. If interested please email me with your info and I will see to it that a copy is mailed to you. Be Safe – Lead With Passion! mjaffa1@msn.com
Hey Mike Jaffa, glad you weighed in on this one. As former Texas VP for the Southwest Division of the IAFC, we as a division passed the Junior Firefighter resolution in 2007 that didn’t set well with the Volunteer Chiefs division VCOS. After some consessions the Silver Ribon Report was completed. To this day I can’t understand why any department would allow our youth to engage in actual firefighting until at least 18 years of age. When are we going to learn that there are no take backs or do overs in a hazardous invironment.
That would be Environment….
What I haven’t heard, so far, is: what protection is afforded the Junior Firefighter/Eagle Scout in the event of severe injury and/or death?
In New York, only members of a Fire Department or Fire Company are eligible for benefits under the Volunteer Firefighter’s Benefit Law. Unless these persons are officially sworn-in members they are not covered.
I firmly believe in the juniou firefighter/Eagle scout concept but I equally believe that to have them respond on apparatus to an emergency and don protective gear and participate in any actual firefighting or other hazardous event, except support outside the event scene, is irresponsible. It places them and other members who have to look out for them at unnecessary, grave risk.
I would not want to be the one to knock on that door and face those parents.
in my firedepartment we have explorers and firefighters, the explorers are only allowed to help pick up gear if asked and/or approved by cheif or saftey officer and explorers are also allowed to fill up air tanks, if there is room on trucks explorers are allowed to ride on them