911 call from Norma Stucki.
Article by Pat Gillespie at News-Press.com:
A 911 call in February during which a sick woman died because she couldn’t unlock the front door to her home has prompted the Bayshore Fire Department to try to revamp its policy for such situations.
Bayshore Fire & Rescue Chief Larry Nisbet said he reached out to local fire departments as well as peers from the Executive Fire Officer Program, a federal firefighter training course. He found that few departments have a policy written for forcible entry on medical calls.
“I was kind of surprised. I thought there would be more out there,” he said.
Norma Stucki.
Nisbet said he will be meeting with other local fire departments in coming weeks to put together policies for emergency situations.
The policy review stems from a 911 call Feb. 23 from Norma Stucki, a 72-year-old who was in her upstairs bed coughing and sick.
She told the dispatcher she was home alone in her two-story house at 11500 Bayshore Road in North Fort Myers. She said she would unlock the front door, but she never got there.
EMS and fire crews arrived seven minutes after being dispatched. Because the front door was locked, crews waited outside 14 minutes until a Lee County sheriff’s deputy arrived. When firefighters finally unhinged the front door, Stucki was dead, pronounced so at 12:08 a.m.
Nisbet said an internal review of the call found firefighters acted properly based on the information provided. He said they were taking off the front door’s last hinge when the deputy arrived.
“The guys had acted appropriately based on what they were faced with,” he said. “The information we got from dispatch was a little vague.”
Nisbet said certain information, if relayed to firefighters, might have prompted them to move more quickly. He said if they knew they were at the right house – a ringing doorbell could be heard on an audio recording of Stucki’s 911 call – and if they knew the dispatcher lost contact with the caller, they might have unhinged the door without waiting on law enforcement.
“If some of the information was relayed, we could have gone in there,” he said. “I know my guys, they’re just crushed by this call.”
Ron Stucki, Norma Stucki’s husband, said a policy change won’t bring back his wife. He said he believes more responsibility should fall on dispatch for not properly relaying information to those on the scene.
“My response is I’m angry as hell,” he said. “They had a right to go in – they were called by 911.”
Diane Holm, public information officer for Lee County Public Safety, said the department believes medics acted appropriately. She said a sign on the door that read “Forget about the dog, worry about the owner” with a picture of a gun concerned them, so they called for deputies.
She said the department has finished reviewing the case and hasn’t made changes to policy. But Holm said the department this week hired a deputy director and operations chief – both promoted from within – so it’s possible that could spark a review.
Matt Rechkemmer, the county’s 911 program manager, has said the dispatcher followed policies. He said Friday no dispatch policies will be changed.
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- Raw video: Police to the rescue. Cop saves woman in Modesto, California & attempts to put out fire. – April 24, 2011
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Remember Rule #1 of all POlice, Fire & EMS PIO:
When you can’t think of any other excuse, BLAME 9-1-1 or the DIspatcher. They are the easiest target and the press just pounces on them thar stories!
I’m all for caution and firefighter safety, however much of the United States fire service has been turned into a crowd of people who dress up like firefighters but are afraid of their own shadows. Firefighting and emergency response is dangerous even when done correctly. Folks need to be told when they come looking to become a firefighter that they will be expected to take certain calculated risks when a life is on the line.If you are not willing to work hard, move quickly and make life and death decisions in the spur of the moment, then look elsewhere for employment.
As for the chief of a fire rescue department who doesn’t have a policy on forcing entry at medical emergencies … he should be gone … that is a gross failure on his / her part. Does the chief have an S.C.B.A. policy, a R.I.T. policy, an engine and ladder company op’s policy … Ummm … probably not. And there are lots more chiefs just like him / her. I bet their department is ‘accredited’ though …
It would appear that the 911 calling party/the victim in question said she would unlock the door. Obviously her Medical Emergency was such that she couldn’t make it to the door. If the Responding Units arrived on scene and were unable to gain
access, did they call back to Dispatch and request that a call back be initiated. If in fact this did occur, and still were unable to gain entry, There was a decision to be made that Forceible Entry was required. Now the issue at hand: (1) Did
911 advise the responding un its of the information received about the victim Home Alone/she would unlock the door? (2)
Now if this pertinent information was never relayed to the Responding Units there obviously was a breakdown. “Medical Emergency,unable to gain entry, Common Sense”. It should be the order that anytime a 911 Emergency Incident occurs and a similar situation occurs, “911/Dispatch Operations,have a Responsibility to the Field Operations Responders/Obligation to the Taxpayer in need to convey any/all information” It must always be in everyone’s mind first/foremost,”When a Taxpayer Dials 911 they are experiencing the worst day of their Life”. They are expecting and are most Definitely entitled to receive the Best Level of Professional Customer Service. 911/Dispatch people should always Treat the 911 caller exactly how they would expect/their Family to be Treated.
Thank You
I believe you really need to listen to this call, and think about how the dispatcher handled it… There are minutes that go by without one question from Dispatch, nothing… Mam are you ok, Mam were you able to unlock the door… Mam please try and take short breaths… Mam do you have an prior medical issues, at the ten minute mark he asks if she sees them, to no answer from the patient, you hear the door bell, were they in communication with the paramedic crew… He almost waits two more minutes to see if she sees them, no answer… then another minute goes by and he asks her to open the door, this time we are in complete silence, she has passed… Another 45 seconds and they ask again, open line, with no responds…
Very strange how someone is reviewing the tapes during the call, what were they listen for…
At 15:45 he tells someone he hears the phone moving, the phone hasn’t moved in four minutes…
Now he gets concerned…
He might have been following procedures, but I honestly wonder if he would have spoken to his mother that way….
Sadly there are calls out there, where Fire has to worry about their safety as well, so I hope that fire and dispatch were talking and letting them know they have the right home, by the doorbell, or did that come up afterwards…
I would like to hear the radio traffic as well… not fair to Dispatch that we only hear the 911 call, what is on the radio traffic…
Where’s the rest – and arguably the most important part – of this story: the dispatch/radio audio and/or telecommunication transcripts? We need to know what communications actually took place between Fire Dispatch and the Firefighters/EMS on-scene. This would go a long way to defining where blame should be placed – after, of course, the lack of a Forcible Entry Policy.
This was painful to listen to, knowing the outcome.
Training, training, training! Our 911 Center employees need managers, elected officials, Chief’s etc to step up and begin offering one of the if not the most important part of Emergency Services to the 911 operators (dispatcher, call takers etc.)
As in other posts I will repeat myself. We need not to place blame but find weaknesses in our system as a whole and improve those weaknesses. We waste too much time trying to place blame. Wouldn’t this be a novel idea……let’s be proactive instead of reactive. Start training our communications personnel. See below article.
http://firechief.com/technology/communications/front_line_0908/
P.J.
I have read the comments and it seems that 911 did to some level attempt to get the 911 caller/victim confirmed she would open the door. probably during the 911 call the 911 Operator should have asked/insisted the caller go at that time and unlock the door or perhaps even open the door. The questions asked were pertinent to the 911 Emergency. Now the issue is as has been commented about”Did in Fact the 911 Operator/Dispatcher actually convey the situation as was already in motion. (1) The Woman unforunately was unable to unlock the Door. Her Medical Emergency apparently took her to
unconsciousness. (2) The part of hearing the Telephone ring, gave/or should have initiated a Forceible Entry Effort without further delay. There is a definite need for In Service Training for both Fire/EMS Operational People and 911/Dispatchers. One point of absolute belief, “911/Dispatch Operations isnot an ANSWERING SERVICE” these folks are the first contact the Taxpayers have in experiencing any Emergency. As was the result here it was a Life Threatening Emergency. A Basic Body of Knowledge/Understanding How,why,whynot, who, when,where relevant information is immediately conveyed/shared among 911 Operations/Fire and EMS Operations. One can only Hope/Believe that some sort of In Service Training, by everyone will take place. This Lady Good Lord Rest Her Soul, shouldnot/mustnot be pushed aside as an unfortunate Incident. The Authorities from Public Safety/Local
Political Folks have a defined Responsibility/Obligation to ensure the Taxpayers their Life is important and every Effort
is being/will be implemented for a Safe Community. Contrary to
any opinion No new 911 Policies are in need, People should realize all 911 Calls should/must be handled just exactly how
they expect their Families to be Treated. Think About it.
Thank You