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Finally, a scientifically validated look at staffing, deployment models, and fireground tasks relative to the 2-story Residential Structure in the U.S.
Thank goodness.
OK Dave – here’s where some good reporting is needed. How come Fairfax, Loudon, Montgomery, PG, Howard, Anne Arundel – some of the wealthist counties in the nation can get away routinely with less than 4 staffing. And when is someone going to have the guts to ask how Fairfax can send crews all over the world but can’t adequately staff a ladder truck?
ET,
Oooooh…ooooh, I know… I know….No ones been killed in the line of duty yet, thats why!
ET: Fairfax doesn’t send crews all around the world, FEMA does. That pays for the backfill and overtime incurred while they are away. You can’t use that as ammo because its the department doesn’t lose money on the deal.
Completely agree with this study but look at what the jurisdictions that participated actually have accomplished.
All have built out tens of millions on facilities and apparatus based on NFPA 1710 but don’t even or won’t commit to interior firefighting because the first engine has to wait for two out or doesn’t have the experience level to operate effectively. It is absolute nonesense that they build out capability in search of need but can’t figure out they need to build less or consolidate companies and put sufficient crews together for a basic interior operation.
A union board member in Montgomery told me that securing the positions now is more important than filling the positions, ie. because of the additional officer positions created and to box in the volly organizations. Is this indicative of where the fire service has headed – run by the strategic planners of the IAFF locals?
We can’t put out a fire correctly because we don’t have enough people to start an attack effectively but we can wait for that next next engine with an officer coming from that new 10 million dollar fire station down the street. By the way, Montgomery now has several new lieutenants that have never put out a fire with a hoseline.
NIST should throw those factors in the mix as well….
And exactly how much money did it take to determine that 4 people can do things faster than 3 people who can do things faster than 2 people. Doesn’t take a brain surgeon to figure that one out.
Anonymous said; “won’t commit to interior firefighting because the first engine has to wait for two out”
Ever read OSHA 1910.134?
Frustrated,
Politicians need this document as proof. It’s something we can point-to as documented ,’scientific proof’. Thats all. Yeah seems like a waste, but had to be done.
The only understaffed department in the Washington DC area is PGFD. When was the last time an Engine in DC, Montgomery, Howard, or Anne Arundel went on a call understaffed or failed to respond completely? Just read the NIOSH report on staffing. Im just glad that everyone went home, unfortunately a few of them however will never return to full duty. A typical fire call gets 3 engines dispatched knowing that two will fail to respond. Ladder trucks are reassigned to other stations because it might actually get out on a call at another station. One working fire incident in the south part of the county cripples the county’s resources. Its funny how Montgomery and Howard get SAFER grants for staffing when they really don’t have problems with staffing. Jones “Its OK we have 2000 volunteers”
This report doesn’t answer the question: if I have a budget for 120 firefighters on duty, is it better (for FF safety / for Fire Fatalities / for property loss) to deploy them at 30 stations with 4 FF ea., or at 40 stations with 3 FF ea.
Yes, it said 4 is better than 3 and 3 is better than 2, but, not too much more than that. We knew there was a benefit from more, but, should we read the report as saying having a 4th FF at each company is worth 76 seconds of response time? When should unions shift efforts from improving staffing to improving compensation? When should city managers shift efforts from building new firestations to enhancing the staffing of existing stations?
What about the other things we need to know about deployment? Officer experience? Firefighter experience, training? Crew variety vs. crew integrity?
Its a good step towards injecting some science into a political decision, but there’s so much more to know.
Re: 1910.134 or .120, yea, I helped write it in 1990.
If the priority is 2, 3 person engines and trucks space 3.5 miles apart or a single 4 person engine or ladder, factor in the difference in value. That’s all I’m saying in reference to Fairfax and Montgomery Cos.
Usually, what happens, (unless an ambulance arrives as the 2 out) is the 3 person engines arrives and doesn’t start an attack because they wait a few minutes for another unit to make up the two out. Wouldn’t you rather have a 4 person crew ready to go upon arrival? Besides, there are several other factors, at great cost I might add, why things are done the way the NIST report says they should.