There is much debate in our comments section about the use of master streams during the CNG fueled Metrobus fire in Anne Arundel County, Maryland on Friday morning. We originally posted a short YouTube clip and still pictures provided by Chief Drew Mutch of the Cape St. Claire Volunteer Fire Company. What I missed, that a reader pointed out in our comments section yesterday, is another much longer YouTube video. It begins just before the arrival of the first engine and continuously rolls for almost seven minutes.
Rather than a serious discussion on the merits of master streams when faced with this situation, the comments have devolved, as often is the case on the Internet, into name calling and a debate over who has the bigger nozzle. Because of that I don’t recommend you take the time to read the discussion. Depending on your own mental state, doing so could cause you to either do bodily harm to yourself or sue me for wasting your valuable time.
Unlike some of our comments on this subject, the video is quite interesting and seems to give a more complete picture of the conditions to help you choose sides in this issue.
Also on STATter911 …
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- Black firefighter claims discrimination after failing to get promotion he previously turned down. Berea, Ohio’s William Phelps says original offer was race & not merit based. – November 7, 2011
- Video: Franklin Park, Illinois 3-11 motel fire. – August 12, 2011
- Stealing from the Geezer: Caption this. – August 18, 2011
Comments
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Nice work. Pressure relief valve venting is visible, so take a defensive stand and cut your losses. Bus is fully involved, anyone inside is gone anyway, no point in a LODD due to an explosion trying to “save” a body. No point in being aggressive to save some paint on parked cars. Protect the men and save what you can.
The title of this video should be “How to not establish a water supply by AACFD”….
Watch this amazing footage that takes you deep insidie of AACFD’s Bravest, as they go head to head with this monster bus. In this video you will see almost 2 minutes of heart pounding non stop action where these heroic men and women flow water for almost 2 minutes, followed by 4 minutes of stunning action where this bus burns freely. You’ll also get to see never before seen footage where these heros risk their lives for close to 4 minutes, so they can find some water. Yes, NO WATER FOR 4 MINUTES. And if you think that isn’t enough action, you’ll get to see 5 seconds of these brave soldiers while they apply water from a preconnected handline.
You the people asked and we delivered. Order your video today by sending $19.95 by check or money order too:
AACFD
P.O Box 0
Waterless, MD 00000
And if you order within the next 30 seconds, you’ll recieve the highly acclaimed Anniversary Edition AACFD Bobble head doll collection. Not only are they fun for the kids, but there fun for adults too. Slap their heads whenever you want and see them bounce from side to side. Each Bobble head comes with complete turnout gear. WARNING: Keep these bobble heads away from flammable materials, as the heat shrinks their heads, thus reduces their ability to bob.
They used the correct initial tactics as far as I’m concerned- based upon the visible jets of pressurized gas showing upon arrival. We had a near-miss CNG car fire here in Seattle:
http://www.seattle.gov/fire/publications/cng/CNGAutoFire.ppt
Risk a little to save a little. The bus was already toast; the environment inside was non-survivable. The exterior exposures could be protected from a distance while minimizing the exposure of the Firefighters to a possible explosion. If you perform a quick 360 of the scene (looking for injured/exposed humans), use the PA to evacuate the parking lot, and keep cooling the bus from a distance (use a handline if you need to feel like a hero), then you are doing your job.
Dump your booster tank for a 2 minute deck gun attack? Then sit for (at least) 3 more minutes doing nothing….ran out of video. They might want to train on this kind of fire…they might see more of them in the future. MWATA is very good about offering training on the new CNG busses.
Hey smart big-city fireman – ITS A NON-HYDRANT AREA. There is no convenient source of water within a good distance of this location. How could hey have better established a water supply – do a rain dance? They used the water they had on board and thne were forced to wait for other units to bring additional water, and when those units arrive you see them flowing water.
Who’s this Hookman? Nice way to add to the conversation. Buddy, you’re not as funny as you think, or as smart. Let the firefighters on here offer insight and experience to this situation so they can learn and share what they know.
I believe a handline with smooth bore would have been a better choice until water supply was established. I’m not a huge fan of wagon pipes off the booster tank for the reasons seen in the video. Once water supply is established, a 2 1/2 would have been my next move….
After seeing this video, I’ll admit that my initial impression was wrong. With the tank venting like that the officer made the correct decision. The only thing I would have done different is approach it from the front. That way if the tank let go you have a little more protection.
look hookman, it doesnt sound like you do alot of engine work or maybe any work at all. like someone else said this is in an area that has tankers running into it. if they had a plug to hook up to dont you think that would have been the first thing they went for with the amount of smoke showing from a mile away. if you werent there dont act like an ass and talk like you were there watching it all happen.
looking at the video, I feel the correct use of the master stream was employed. Some of you city guys are spoiled by having hydrants everywhere, obviously they do not.
protect the firefighters, and put no one in harms way… unless the obvious is present
The master stream was absolutely the right choice, however employing it before the tank stopped venting rendered it completely ineffective. Had they waited there’s a good chance that could have knocked down the bulk of the fire with their deck gun, before moving in on the now safe bus with handlines to finish the job on just their one tank of water.
Deck gun usage seems to be the issue here and why not! From 31 years in a career dept. 26 stations 80,000 calls per year to a small rural municipality with limited hydrants the last 8, a tanker pumper w/3500 gallons and first out cafs pump w/1000 gallons what is your first priority guys? Who cares about the fire, if that was your answer you failed command school. This officer did the right thing, kept his members at a safe distance and utilized the deck pipe, which is becoming a lost art. Good decision, their may have been extenuating circumstances as to why the second and subsequent engines were delayed for further water source capability,anyone factor that in? The moth to the flames mindset is what is killing north american firefighters to the tune of 50-60 every year, tactics and poor selection of them, the balance medical issues. For any of you, who have never had to make command decisions in the rural environment without grid water supply, get some knowledge prior to criticizing. Kudos to the AACFD officer, right decision on a complete write off,remember our only goal
is at the end of every shift you send your members back home to their families in the same shape they came to work, in one piece and healthy. Chief out.
Thank you Anonymous NOVA Engine Driver,
You put into words what the rest of us feel. I could not have said it any better. But, I still don’t think he will be able to take a hint. His ego won’t allow it.
Thank you
As I commented in the earlier post, you cant condemn one’s decisions if you were not there!! Now that I’ve seen this video I still think it was a good decision and I cant say that I would have done any different if faced with it. I dont think any different outcome would have been achieved with any other attack after watching this video. The only difference would have been risking firefighters lives to save NOTHING! RISK NOTHING TO SAVE NOTHING!!!
CNG fueled Metrobus fire with no plugs in the area = P.R. Detail… establish a safe area and let her burn to the ground. Everyone goes home.
I won’t repost what I just wrote because it says its still awaiting moderation. I will say one thing and that is, I have carried a few bags in my day, but those I’ve carried for were actually playing the game. In your case, your just looking for someone to hold and wipe your balls. And da HOOKMAN don’t roll that way!!
Hookman you just worry bout cleaning my mess up (Overhaul Beotch)Obviously we dont have a Hydrant every 100′ like the Big City boyz have, and since you belive your a so called ‘Truckie’ you have no clue about suppression, so just wait until your rotation maybe your better on the EMS units