Read March 18th statement by Burtonsville VFD
STATter911.com previous coverage
Mike Ward at Firegeezer.com provides insight from thewatchdesk.com
A spokeswoman for the Burtonsville Volunteer Fire Department has told Gazette.net, "As of 0700 hours Sunday morning, we suffered the most devastating loss of leadership in the history of the department. Both our chief and our president have resigned, [and] the majority of our operating officers have resigned their positions as well."
This is the latest development in the battle between the leadership at Burtonsville and Montgomery County Chief Richard Bowers.
Here's more from the article by Jeremy Arias:
Burtonsville Volunteer Fire Chief Robert E. Ryan and four other senior volunteer officials resigned from their posts as Burtonsville volunteers Saturday while also requesting demotions from the Montgomery County Fire and Rescue Service that oversees both career and volunteer firefighters countywide.
The move came in response to county fire and rescue service Chief Richard R. Bowers' Feb. 24 decision to transfer command of the Burtonsville station to career firefighters following complaints that the station's volunteers were mistreating their career counterparts, even urinating on the door handles of career firefighters' vehicles, said county fire and rescue spokesman Assistant Chief Scott Graham. Volunteer officials contested the complaints, saying those that were found to be substantive had been investigated and dealt with while also arguing that Bowers' action was illegal, said Burtonsville Volunteer Firefighter Department spokeswoman Tami Bulla.
Since Saturday, a steady number of volunteers have shown up to help the department staff its emergency response vehicles, according to both Graham and Bulla.
At least two command-level volunteers, a captain and a lieutenant, remain active with the Burtonsville Volunteer Fire Department, Bulla said, but the long-term future of volunteers at the station is uncertain.
Also on STATter911 …
- New Fairfax County, VA fire chief is Montgomery County, Maryland’s Chief Richard Bowers. – February 12, 2013
- Firefighter/dispatcher falls asleep during 911 call. TV station has audio from Montgomery County, Maryland. – May 22, 2012
- Early video: Basement fire in Montgomery County, Maryland. – May 5, 2012
- Raw chopper video: Multi-alarm apartment fire with rescues in Montgomery County, Maryland. – July 13, 2012
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Another "Black Eye" for the Montgomery Co. Fire Dept. and East Coast Firefighters? Three weeks ago you didn't have enough equipment and personnel for the fire "Seige" and now this?
What Chief Richie Bowers needs to do is contact the Chief in Riverside County, Ca., to review his Model of how he is changing the Volunteers into "Reserves" to bring them under a more uniform set of Rules and Regulations and Operating Policy.
The concept of the seperate Career and Volunteer Companies each having their own set of R'and R's would be steamlined under one document.
They do now; you are in the UK and not the US. Re, Riverside, Cal. and the rest of the State – cant' afford fire protection as it is, and never had a strong presence of volunteers anyway. Apples and watermelon comparison
WHAT A MESS! How can a FD that is so big have such an unorganized outfit? A career Chief and then a station within that department has a Chief, AC., President. It would seem to me that even in a mixed career and volunteer dept, that each station's highest officer would be a Captain, whether he/she is career or volunteer. The more I read about these very large depts that surround the Washington, DC area, the more I know that the mixed system of some career stations and some volunteer stations DOES NOT WORK.
Can't house them together. Building separate stations career vs. volunteer is the only way to manage this.
there will always be some form of "conflict" when you mix volunteer members (especially in their own station) with "paid" employees of another agency. There are stories of the vollies complaining that the paid "day" crews don't take care of the equipment and leave the station trashed and the vollies are expected to "clean up" when they show up for their evening assignments.
Folks need to understand that due to the large volume of runs now coming into these once "rural" areas, the need for full-time staffing at the station has become a necessity since the vollies (most of which area highly dedicated) have to work and have other committments that now consume much of their time. It's one thing when the fire company "hires" and supervises the paid/career crew but something else entirely when you have divided leadership and sometimes conflicting priorities among the career and vollie staff.
A combination system can work if both sides are willing to make it work. For the most part, it has worked for a long time in Montgomey County. When the bells go off and appratuis responds, from my own experience, I have seen nothing but professional and exceptional service from Paid and Volunteer alike. There are little if no issues in the level of service between Paid and Volunteer when on calls. I would challenge any county resident to find a difference, I doubt they could.
In Montgomery County Volunteer and Paid fire fighter see themselves as two independant and opposing sides. One side feels that they can do it better then the other simply because they draw a paycheck and therefore should have all control while the other side spends countless amount of capital both in man hours as well as money fighting for their very right to exist instead of putting that capital towards positive functions.
The rules are not different for Paid or Volunteer. The Volunteers have to meet the standards as established by the County or they are not on the IECS. The volunteers continue to meet those standards, even as those requirements have steadily increased. Anyone who says the rules are different does not know the system and has no understanding of what the rules are. Yes Paid firefighters are on-duty every third day because of shift work and in most instances, Volunteers are only required to do one day per week, but most do alot more.
Look at a calendar: it’s 2011, not 1961. Many of the small town, volunteer fire companies that once served their communities well have become a thing of the past, either by attrition of their ranks or by surviving only as subsidized playgrounds for marginally supervised semi-adults.
In the D.C. metro area, the days of responsible, civic-minded volunteer firemen leaving work to answer an occasional call are long gone. Taxpayers in Montgomery, Fairfax and Prince George’s counties pay for well funded, professional county fire departments. These are the authorities that should have all legal authority and accountability for firefighting within their respective jurisdictions. Moreover, the career fire authorities must be held accountable and not be allowed to use the volunteers as an excuse for underperformance and lack of discipline.
Remember, the vollies save somewhere from 40 -45 million. The career IAFF don't seem to understand that the generous salaries and benies are precisely because these "savings" go back into the budget (which is mostly personnel costs). In other words, they need each other.
However, most don't see it from a financial standpoint and are more concerned about the chain of command. And the chain is not about competence (for the most part) but about political power and creation of positions. Combo system, as is currently designed, is destined for failure. The public does not even know, or care, how the system is configured, simply that apparatus shows up. The voters of Montgomery Co made a choice for a unified fire chief a few years back without understanding the ramifications, both positive and negative. Richie Bowers is only doing the job his boss wants him to do. Voters seemed to not understand that either pro or con volly or pro or con union, the fire chief is beholden to the Montgomery Co County Exec.
IMO, the County has too much money and if it doesn't it will find the revs to fund a predominately expanding career fire service. Burtonsville simply threw in the towel. They don't have the option of simply kicking the career guys out and staffing volly because of the number of services that are responsible for. PG is single pull and only needs 3 -5 guys to get something out without having the Union scream bloody murder about a failure to respond like in Montgomery.
I love the "volunteers save money" bit. Doesn't hold much water when you look into what they buy (anything they want with taxpayer money) and what they're PAID. That's right, PAID. Incentives, LOSAP, and in this particular case the head of the MCVFRA makes over $100,000 a year to fight Montgomery County on everything and the VOLUNTEER FIRE CHIEF made $137,000 last year. All in taxpayer money, but yet they continue to tell the community that they save money with their outlandish spending and pick-and-choose call responses.
Give me a freakin' break. Believe me when I say what you see on the news about Burtonsville is only the tip of the iceberg. Party's over kids! You don't have to go home, but you can't stay here.
Don't give into them! Stand strong and proud for what you all belive in!
Grow Up
Don't give into them! Stand up for what you all believe in!
Anonymous, who are you referring to, Burtonsville or the County. If it is Burtonsville you are an idoit and an enabaler. I guess your saying that certain groups don't have to follow the rules. For the ones that walked out, stay out the citizens wont miss you. For the ones that stayed good luck. And Bam Bam, when you do quit the union, make sure you get rid of the IAFF stickers and tattoo's.
The problem is the knife and fork members of these VFD's want to control the fire department like they used too. They use propaganda on the citizens and new volunteers to say how bad the career personnel make it for them.
If you want to run a volunteer system then do it right. Let the people who do this everyday place you where you are needed. We do not need volunteer officers. We need firefighters and EMT's. You don't think the person who volunteers at the library walks in the door and says he wants to be the librarian do you?
Give me a break. What does not needing a volly officer have to do with "doing it right?" Yep, you are an expert on the fire service, I can see.
I live in a rural 3 town county, in Idaho, all of our depts here are 24/7 paid on call depts. We have one cheif, Asst. cheifs, captains, firefighters and emts, in all 3 towns. We have very strict guide lines, we we have to be trained in everything. From extrication, wildland, structure, hazzmatt, search & rescue, water rescue, and some are trained in medical. We all have to get along and only one town has fireman that work a shift. The town I live in, even the cheif has a full time job and has to leave when the tones go off. He is also one that if you mess up he lets ya know, and he runs a tight ship. We have to go through all the training just as carrer firefighters do. I am at ff2 and am an engineer, their has been times that I have been in charge, till one of our cheifs show on scene.
So yes there has to be dissipline in all depts, paid, paid volly, or just volly. As well as some form of a command system, heck even I am NIMS trained. I know where I place in that line of command, Im the indian with one little feather on my head. I know there will always be conflict with carrer and volly depts, but come on people we are adults and have a job to do.
The problem with MCFRS is not the volunteers. In fact, the problem is that the only firemen in the county ARE volunteers, and now the county's trying to push them out. Citizens, beware, you are about as qualified and experienced as 75% of Montgomery County career firefighters. If you want to talk about not following rules and policies, listen to ANY box alarm in montgomery county involving career companies. It is painful. They take guys who have ridden an ambulance or often times a Medic unit for their entire career, give them a test, and then make them officers. It's like telling the guy who bags groceries at Giant, "We've decided to make you the General Manager of the store."
Burtonsville, like EVERYONE else, has had their fair share of issues. Statter, how about you post the letter left from former BVFD Fire Chief Rob Ryan on their website. How about we stray away from the one-sided reporting? (That will never happen). All of the issues brought up by Bowers and the County were either not substantiated or were dealt with by the BVFD under the supervision of the Bowers and the 12th floor. Thats the way the system works. All serious issues that occur are forwarded to the 12th floor, and then the LFRD takes action which MUST be approved by the County Fire Chief. This is a perfect example of double jeopardy, and the media jumping on "allegations" without first seeing which allegations have been substantiated and have already been dealt with in proper accordance to MCFRS procedure.
For all of you who posted above believing the volunteers cause all the problems in the fire service, how about you take a look in the mirror. Soliciting sex to underage children? Driving drunk while operating a county vehicle and hitting a police car? Being "granted" the opportunity to retire after making racial slurs at one of your subordinates? Should I go on? We all have dirty laundry. Everyone does stupid things. Each of the instances above have been dealt with by the County, and each of the substantiated allegations against the BVFD have been dealt with and the actions have been approved by the County.
Good luck to Mr. Ike Legget (if he runs again) and the rest of the County Council in future elections. The volunteers of the county just showed them they have the ability to lead strong policy-oriented campaigns. Don't forget that these volunteers you have turned your back on are your constituents.
Is that the letter I linked to at the top of what I posted? If I was so one sided, why would I even bother to do that? Or if that was the case why would I post your comment? I have no horse in this race.
I no longer do the reporting. I am much too lazy these days to do that for free. I excerpt and link to stories I think firefighters would find interesting (I sometimes comment on the few topics that I have fooled myself into thinking I have some expertise in).
I believe the excerpts I chose gave a synopsis of the view of both sides in this battle. Sorry you don’t think that way. But as for bias, I can assure you I have no emotional attatchment to any part of this story. Can you say the same?
Which leaves me to an important question to ponder, is it better for me to be one-sided or two-faced?
Thanks for reading and sharing your thoughts.
Statter
Ladies and Gents,
As a volunteer in montgomery county i am disapointed at the actions of the BVFD, but please dont let one organization speak for the entire county of volunteers who day in and day out preform the duties that the career personel do for little or no benefit except their love and desire for helping others. While I do not agree with the actions of the BVFD i do understand where they are comming from; when i enter MY firehouse, the one my fd owns, i shouldnt be expected to have to ask a career firefighter for permission to ride one of the 3 fontline pieces of apparatus MY energy in fundrasing purchased. The county's actions where meant to instigate these actions to show the "classlessness" of the volunteer system, but how long did the community really expect these men and women to allow an outside force from STEALING what was theirs. The people have pride in their fire company as if it were the child and having someone tell you that you dont know how to care for your child after coutless years of service would likely spark a reaction of similar magnitude from you. As a volunteer all I ask you all to consider both sides before jumping all down the volunteers back as there is not a man or a woman that at that firehouse, career or volunteer, that i wouldnt trust comming to save my family on an EMS call or if I was trapped in a buring building…..just food for though
Professionalism is an attitude not a paycheck. Their are some very professional volunteers out there. Just as their are some career screw ups.
Thats alright, they (volunteers) can always just go over to PG and become a volunteer chief over night.
I admire MCFD leadership for stepping up and requiring standards.
As far as those who state MCFD is disorganized, you obviously havent seen other systems in the area….MCFD is a model FD. You cant be angry with them for not putting up with BS.
Last time I checked. Isnt it a union conflict?? If you can support a paid fire service shouldnt you?? arent you considered a SCAB if you have paid members around you?? I never will understand this volly/paid combo crap. Either one or the other fellas.
Yes, SCABs. Many of the BVFD guys are DC/PG/Balto Co professional firefighters. Way to treat your "brothers", guys.
@Mongomery Vol: I am glad that you have pride in your department but you illustrate what's wrong with BVFD perfectly – those are not "your" fire trucks – they belong to the community. Also if you search back far enough in the history of the fire station "your" corporation owns – you will probably find that it was built with bond money from the county or at very least from community donations. The community donated money with the expectation that the money would be used for FR service delivery – not to provide a club house for wayward 20 year olds. Don't conflate your personal desires with what is best for the community.
If you have heart burn with reporting to a career employee – ask your fellow volunteers to man up and staff the place completely. We both know that isn't going to happen. Until then, have some respect for the career officer – who probably has more time and experience than you do. I bet if you work with them, (i.e. come in an be respectful, join in drills and housework) they will work with you.
Think about it…….
Actually that fire station was built 100% with tax money and is owned by Montgomery County. Just another little wrinkle…
Alot of the vol. at Burtonsville are paid guys elsewhere. They need to step back and ask themselves how they would like it if vol. came into their station and acted like little babbies. WWWHHHHAAAAA!!!!!!
Burtonsville brought this on themselves, as they refused to work within the system for too long. Watchout Rockville, if you fail to get on board, you might be next.
Also no one ever talks about the fact that these "volunteer firefighters," are not for the most part local citizens, who care about their community, but college age kids, who treat the station, and bunk room, like a frat house.
Good Job Chief Bowers for having the stones to finally stand up to these jokers. It will certainly save Burtonsville area homeowners on their post "food on the stove" window repair bills.
What percentage of the paid staff are from MC or even live in MC? I cant imagine thier loyalty is to much more than the money and benefits. Just a guess, but I would say the a vast many of the current paid staff are not from here, but are volunteers elsewere. How much community pride could they possibly have?
A lot of you clowns need to use spell check and / or re-certify in 5th grade grammar before you submit posts here. It's painful trying to decipher your broken english and formulate a guess on the point of your rambling. Start by researching the words THERE, THEIR and THEY'RE, and THEIR proper usage!
WHEN CHIEF BOWERS WAS A FF HE HATED THEVOLS.
Actually, the vast majority of burtonsville volunteers, especially the leadership are from the area.
And RE: The comments about vols "joining in" with housework and drills… you sir are sorely mistaken and know obviously know nothing about which you spew.
The vols do ALL of the housework except take out the trash sometimes, and do MOST of the drills and untill recently payed for ALL of the dinners.
Maybe if the career guys joined in more of the drills…. You got it backward dude.
This is simple. MCFR does not want and/or need volunteers in that area. Volunteers need to open thier eyes. Large counties and cities donot have/want volunteers; They want a professional (meaning paid staff) FD. It is commical to hear volunteers drool over LA, NY, Baltimore City……you notice these are all carrer departments?
If you are truely bent on volunteering your time and not doing something with your life then go somewhere out in the country (e.i. Fredrick County) or a place that has a good volunteer system (Baltimore County). I am tired of hearing the old "help my community." Your community doesn't need your "help" from a FD standpoint. If you live in a heavily populated area then volunteer by doing something else or move to a county or area that needs volunteer FF/EMT's.
Good Afternoon Mr. Statter;
I appreciate your response to my comment about my comments on the "Regime Change Burtonsville VFD". You mentioned you did approve my comments and posted them. I must be confused, I checked the most recent comments about Burtonsville VFD. My comments are still not posted. Did you post them on an earlier Blog comment? It still shows my comments are still under moderation.
Thank You
Since you are one of many thousand people named “anonymous” who have commented on this site, it can be tough to figure out which comment is yours. Combining the IP address and the anonymous name I show no un-moderated comments. It is possible it was trashed and that would have likely been for two reasons. Language, or you were playing reporter.
Why not submit it again and I will take a look.
Thanks for writing.
Statter