Two days in a row someone has put out a house fire for firefighters in Whitehall, Pennsylvania before the first engine arrived. Yesterday it was a neighbor (click here). Today, newsworking.org's Bill Rohrer tells us is it's an assistant chief who arrived on the scene first and knocked down the garage fire with a green line in one hand and a radio in the other.
The never ending debate on STATter911.com (and elsewhere) seems to be where the first line should go on a fire in an attached garage. Should the garden hose have gone through the front door to the doorway to the garage or hit the fire from the outside garage door?
Clearly, these two fires show someone needs to write an SOP for green line use so the public and firefighters arriving without apparatus know what is expected of them. While you are at it, make sure that we have guidelines for using coolers (click here) and snow blowers (click here) to put out fires. In addition, someone needs to come up with standards to make sure the green lines (here's another one), coolers and snow blowers meet minimum standards for firefighting.
Also on STATter911 …
- Man’s use of green line proves fatal. Port Ludlow, WA mobile home fire. – June 10, 2012
- Pre-green line arrival video: House fire in Alameda County, California. – November 19, 2011
- Pre-arrival video: Contra Costa, California garage fire with explosions & green line. – March 27, 2012
- Pre-arrival video: Car carrier on fire in Poland. Suppression efforts by citizens & firefighters. – December 21, 2012
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If my house ever catches, any videographer present will see a green line through the front door. I bought it special, a 100' x 3/4" garden hose that I paid $60 for in the mid 90's. While I wouldn't be suicidal about the issue, I wouldn't have a problem crawling up the hallway with it if conditions were right. It reaches three sides of the house, as does the one in the back yard. We have great water BTW. Nothing i own is worth dying for, but it is worth some effort.
This right here should justify the local government to set up some type of structure whithin this department so this doesn't happen, because this is a joke to the fire service for both career and volunteers…not only is it unsafe, but you look like a RETARD!!! If you think fighting fires is just a matter of putting water on fire and dressing up and breathing an entire 45 minute bottle in the frontyard( in this case driveway) then you my friend are sadly mistaken! fighting fires is a science that if not sized up properly can go wrong and hurt someone but by wearing shorts and your Professionaly Staffed Volunteers doing everything horribly wrong then your asking to get hurt!
All I have to say is good thing the neighbors put out the second fire. It does not look like the fire company ever sowed up.
I like the chief in the goofy coveralls. The pant legs aren't long enough. All the chiefs in this dept need to be sent for a "fitness of duty" evaluation.
Well Dave,
A couple key points here Im sure that everyone is going to point out im sure.
Yardbreathing. Every person on that crew weearing a bottle was clipped in BEFORE exiting the engine. They were SCOTT packs, they were clipped in they were breathing air.
Second the Chief? officer in all white appeared to be wearing a jumpsuit? His pants legs did not even fit over his boots. Did not appear to be interior rated turnout gear. Maybe he just came to the scene in the buggy, who knows.
Once the engine arrived on scene the Ass. Chief who was using the garden hose should have stepped back and let his crew do their job.
I personally dont have a problem with the Ass. Chief using the garden hose. I believe any other firefighter would have done the same in THAT situation. Not to say that there are instances where you shouldnt do an "attack".
This was fairly cut and dry attack. Attached garage, gargae doors were open, minimal extension it appeared. I mean, all things considered, once the engine arrived the fire was put out in a quick effective manner.
Where does this practice of getting off the rig breathing SCBA air come from? Is it actually taught in some places?
Yard breathing – I had not heard that term before but it is a huge problem. We are seeing FFs get off the rig into traffic with their mask on. No wonder they do not get a good size -up. I am so glad that other parts of the country are seeing this dangerous practice as just what it is – dangerous. Its time to learn how to put your mask on at the front door, back door, garage door or whatever door is correct for the fire THIS TIME based ON THESE conditions. Mark my word this dangerous trend due to changes in masks is going to get someone killed. Where is this taught or is it one of those things that just seem to start from no where.
Didn't anybody tell the chief he was going to a dwelling fire and not a flood? Sweet jumpsuit. Good job by those on scene.
Nice job with the garden hose, Chief. 30 years ago, I saw a PA chief throw a rock into a window to ventilate as the engine was arriving. I guess, "whatever it takes."
As for the guys coming off breathing air, "stupid is, as stupid does." Surest way to tunnel vision and actually slows down an attack. Drop to a knee at the door or on the stairwell, control the pipe, and you got your mask on and attacking the fire in 15 seconds, without fogging up and much better situational awareness. I'm sure no Allentown or Philly City Firemen taught them to do that.
If I had to guess, I'd say the chief may have the jump suit so that he can respond in whatever (perhaps less than appropriate in appearance) clothing he was wearing at the time and still look in uniform on scene if not wearing turnouts. Though why he wasn't wearing turnouts on top of that is beyond me.
Is it just me or did the wagon officer pull that line?
When seconds count, the FD is just minutes away.
In this rural area I've gone beyond the "green-line" concept by have 2.5 gal water cans loaded with a COLD FIRE additive in my vehicles, home, garage.
Amazing stuff that COLD FIRE.
Additionally, I have a Cardiac Science G.3 AED in my vehicle and my office.
Be Prepared and Be Safe
Ok, seriously!! What is the training standard for this place?? Is there a training standard? At least they flaked out the line this time. More questions…
Why breath air on the way to what pretty much amounted to an exterior attack?
Why push fire into an unburned area(ie the house)?
Why bring a 10' pike pole to a 1 story garage fire?
Did the first arriving chief really think he was accomplishing anything with the garden hose?
Perhaps, engine and truck company operation classes should be on the agenda for them. Either that or a simple Firefighter I class.
Good Luck and God Bless, Whitehall!! You'll need it!
It is time some people learn something about building construction. The house involved appears to be relatively new. Therefore it probably has the required minimum of 20 minute door and 1/2" drywall. Some areas require even more. What does that mean? Why open up the door on the unburned side and defeat the rated wall. If the overhead garage door is intact, take it out quickly with the quick use of a saw. Make the hole large and let the fire vent. Last time I checked I am not pushing any fire with a properly applied straight stream at the base of the fire, especially when the overhead door is already open. Keep your stream off of the drywall if you can so as to minimize hose degradation also. Its called knowing your buildings and just so we are clear, SOME garages may not have drywall and require different tactics, but this is all part of knowing your area. Also, you may not like the use of the green hose but when that is all you got, it sometimes does the trick. I am thinking some of you have never tried to see how much fire you can put out with a pump can. Try it you and may be suprised. While it may not be your first choice it may save your life to know what a little bit of water can do when properly applied.
Remember "always, never, must and can't" are words you should try and eliminate from your vocabulary. Being observant, decisive, adaptable, and knowledgeable are important to add. Be safe out there.
Anyone feel bad for these guys? Looking that bad on the same website twice in one day. I’m not perfect by any means, nor are the departments I work for or volunteer at. But they are lacking some of the basic firefighter skills and common sense. I hope the Whitehall vfd sees this video and this website and take a look at themselves and learns from this.
This is not funny people………… I really think these guys are being lead by a bunch of IDIOTS!!!!!
Fiirst, I want to point out, That 1st. line should have been stretched into the front door, protect 1st means of egrees, place line between occupant{s}, locate, confine ,and extinguish fire. Also, STOP the FIRE from extending into the house……… The 2nd line should have been streched to the garage to knock down the fire……
Maybe, that asst chief should have forced the front door, IF CONDITIONS allow, , yell in , do a quick search ,size up the conditions from the interior , again , IF possible, relay that info to in coiming units.
its safe to say ……whitehall needs a lot of help!!!!!! Better yet , an overhaul of there leadership!!!!!
Well I am usually against this type of firefighting…..However, in areas where Volunteers are, then so beit. Not a slam against Vollies. Plain simple truth is the response times are delayed during the day and during week days. Most Vollies have jobs and it takes time to assemble.
Just saying
WOW, go to the clip dated 1-6-10–Basswood Dr or La. This is so poor in various ways. I will not comment in the lack of operation. I know we are not perfact in the metro area but, we at least have a plan.
We may complain some of our own county companies but we are haed and shoulders above these folks. sorry !
This example is why is sprinklered my home in PA.
Thanks to the BUILDERS in PA they bought and paid for the XXXXXXX .in HARRISBURG We in the fire service will be faced with NO SPRINKLERS in homes To the BUILDERS and the XXXXXX in HARRISBURG please do not HONOR us when we become injured or KILLED,
You may have made this possible THANKS !!!.
The guy in ill fitting coveralls, loose station boots and a white hat. Who is he? What kind of outfit is he wearing? They at least hustled, but waisting air from the truck up the driveway…crazy.
All you guys are the greatest firemen that ever fought the Red Devil. First let me say thank you for your total awesomeness. Second let me say , Would you please shut up. The only legitimate somplaint on this one is the "WHite Jumpsuit Jammies"
1st line in the front door. Yeh OK Textbook Tom.
On Air–who cares, they were on air which is what you want.
You show up at a house fire or any fire before the apparatus and theres a garden hose and you don't use it..you're an idiot. But you'd go in the front door with PWC?? Ok hero that makes sense.
Ok heros go back to watching videos while the rest of us go out on a call….Bah Bye
No need for the sarcasm. I don’t think anyone was insulting these guys except for the jumpsuit guy. And nobody has claimed to be perfect. We are just confused as to these guys tactics and thinking process when they are running these fires. And for the record I run calls almost everyday as a paid guy and a volunteer and in no way am I an expert or “great fireman”. As I said I hope these guys and all firemen watching these videos can learn from them.
Don't forget the pike pole leaning up against the garage door. Just how much work are you going to get done with a pike pole that is taller than the garage ceiling.
OK, why are they on air when jumping off the engine, but during overhaul, half of them were not?
And what everyone else said.
Just a tip for any future used apparatus buyers out there. According to this station's website, they own a 1994 95' Aerialscope. Looks parade ready.
Judging by what we've seen on just these two clips, it can't have too many hours on the aerial device since if it ever gets to a job, there's no way it gets close enough to put the device in service.
Almost speechless……..I suppose the quote is very accurate in this case "You get what you pay for"
@ confused by u
WOW……..Don't take it so personal, Its just constructive criticism……Hopefully, a lttle enlightenment. I do agree with Rescue 1. Line to the front door first. Remember, protect life FIRST, second the property. Also, attacking the fire from the garage would only push the fire in not out… Maybe you should read a book a two like text book Tom…..
STAY SAFE!!
Several people went with this "thru the front door to protect life"…are we assuming that in daylight hours, with the AC and a small crowd of bystanders, that there are still residents in the house???
If you want to go in the front door to check / prevent extension, then OK I'll agree with you; but, let's not get too far over the top, folks. Don't get your nose so far into the book that you miss something…like maybe talking to the residents…or maybe, just maybe, the AC has already been inside & checked the door from the garage into the house.
With all the goofy stuff that shows up on the video, I hope, for their taxpayers sake, that some smart stuff happened too.
I did find rather humoros all the comments about pushing the fire out the garage door by taking the attack line in through the front door, when it appears there was no extension beyond the contents in the garage and maybe some trim.
So much for limiting damage to the taxpayer's house.
Should've cut a hole in the garage roof for ventilation as well.
Ah well, just another day.
What a wash of your air. I mean getting off the truck breathing air is a waste.