This is from a fire on Wednesday afternoon in Ventura, California with what are described as moderate Santa Ana wind conditions.
Also on STATter911 …
- Pre-arrival video: Apartment fire in Santa Maria, California. – January 23, 2011
- Video: House fire in Fort Bragg, California. – April 3, 2011
- Pre-arrival video: Five-alarm fire in Santa Clara, CA. Townhomes under construction threaten occupied buildings. Video from four sides. – May 12, 2012
- FireTruckBlog.com: Fire engine hits tree in Charlotte, North Carolina & much more news. – December 28, 2010
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It takes 3.5 min. from dragging out the line till crackin the bail?????
Not impressed at all, dam sad. I was thinking that Pa. firefighter were bad, have to change my mind after seeing this clip.
cover the exposure first!!! it must be those make believe helmets they wear on the west coast that affects decision making.
I've been involved in the Fire Service for 17 yrs and watch the video's posted on here all the time and sometimes I just can't believe what I see most of the time. Now like all these vid's, Im not there are wasn't there so I'll give a bit of a break as not knowing 100% whats going on. (only see so much from the vids. Issue's Im having 1) A small/med shed/garage with moderate fire, easily a 1 line fire (poss a second line for backup or protect the house, etc). 2) Why does it take 5 minutes after arriving to start flowing water? If water was flowing right after the line was flaked out, the firee would of been held to the shed/garage, not the camper, fence and tree's with seconds away from the house going up also. 3) Improper 360 & poor desision on fire attach, Walked 10 feet and look down the side, the decide to go through the fence instead of going thru the openning 5 feet away. Then waste 2 minutes trying to break through the fence with an axe..again oppening 5 ft away. 4) near the end of the video a firefighter is seen pulling a second line while breathing air, Wasting a good 2 minutes of air. 5) the crew of the third line, good idea to knock the fire on the fence and tree, but then standing on their toes trying to put out the fire on the roof of the trailer…Ever heard of a ladder? a 12ft or an little giant would of given you a lot better angle and reach. 6) Where is the back-up/second person on the initial line? the guy was by himself the hole vid. Poor tactics, poor desisions all around poor job..I give these guys a D on effort. These guys should go back to the station and run this over and over again until they get it right. The only thing that I can give credit for is a somewhat good knock on the fire..But again with 3 lines it should be. The wind was a issue but proper tactics and size-up would of taken care of that.
Probably could've saved the RV. Noticed that the green line was pulled.
The exposure was the downwind neighborhood. Wind gusts in the region that day reached 70 mph, and as most Southern California Firefighters know, when Santa Ana Winds are blowing you default to wildland mode; be ready to write-off the primary fire structure while protecting the exposure(s). In this case their was also a burning palm tree, and embers were already spreading fire to additional properties. Of course, in the video, you can only see a small slice of the 'big picture'.
From the vcstar.com site:
In Ventura, a fire fanned by the winds damaged a converted apartment, a trailer and a carport, officials said.
Reported about 2 p.m. in the 100 block of South Ann Street, the fire began on the outside of a granny flat behind a home and spread to the trailer and carport, said Fire Marshal Brian Clark of the Ventura City Fire Department. Heavy winds blew around the embers and caused several spot fires, Clark said. Among the items found burning early on was a 30-foot palm tree.
About 30 firefighters responded and knocked down the flames.
The spot fires caused damage to trees and landscaping in the backyards of three houses along the 1000 block of Meta Street and moderate fire damage to the subfloor of a duplex on Laurel Street, firefighters said.
No injuries were reported, but the combined structure damage was valued at $125,000 and combined damage to contents was valued at $15,000. One adult was displaced from a home and was assisted by the Red Cross in finding temporary housing, firefighters said.
The cause of the fire remained under investigation.
Where to start?
The trailer was backed in–open the fricking gate instead of using an axe. Or kicking and never accomplishing your goal. Heck, follow FEMS example and cut it down with a chain saw.
Could use a tad more urgency here if they are really concerned about the wind and the rest of the neighborhood, like get 2 lines going yesterday and knock the fire down. That way the fire won't get to the propane tanks on the front of the trailer.
Question for Wagondriver, it wasn't interior so big deal about no backup on the initial line. If he had a second firemen, he should have grabbed another line and did what the second due did. When low on manpower, you do what you have to do. We've done 1 fireman on a 2 1/2 and one on a 1 3/4" before going inside.
PS Someone call FireGear, I see a loaded stream!
PPS I like it "including a 30 foot palm tree that was burning" about 8' up. Way to make it dramatic.
I guess Fire Trucks in California don't have water tanks! Stretch the line through the open gate, charge it, open side door to small structure involved in fire, apply 500 gallons of tank water and extinguish fire before hydrant connection is even made. Put the fire out and all the other problems will go away! Stay Safe Brothers!
Wow!!! Just plain WOW!
I know in a lot of the SoCal FDs Truck companies are few and far between compared to what most of us on the east coast are used to. Considering that, how sad is it that an engine company can't defeat that wooden gate? OMG!! What was the hesitation until someone in turnout gear finally walked thru the opening in the fence? At least the famed green line was in service while the FD held their committee meeting. Shame the vollies from Penns Grove NJ weren't vacationing in SoCal.
As others have mentioned, with that much concern about exposures and winds…how about we try putting the fire out as soon as possible. Studies have shown that extinguishing the fire generally reduces exposure threats. I like out the FD statement says the palm tree was "found burning". Hey guys, you may have noticed that it wasn't burning when you got there.
Loaded stream in service…and the fire didn't IMMEDIATELY go out as someone has claimed multiple times. Imagine that. Might be more to it than just putting the concentrate in the tank. Serious question though, if the engine was equipped with the juice, it appears that the initial stream was just water…???
I hate watching these video's and then trying to Monday morning quarter back on them, But that RV could/should have been saved.
As a casual observer I believe the issue here is 2 in 2 out.
It appears the first due company, of probably 3 guys, waited until the 2nd due engine arrived to begin the attack.
Nothing else would seem to adequately explain this video.
Wow they need to watch and lean urgency from the DCFD video posted on here earlier. Lets see worried about embers. small fire in shed little embers. Fire goes out embers go away. Bigger fire shed and camper a lot more embers fly. Looks like that was a foam foresry line pulled first and at that it may have darkened down the fire if he would have taken it right to the door on the shed and opened the door, instead of sitting it down and going to work with the axe. Come on man Strike the Box! K
5 minutes for water, WOW, Bringing back the Las Vegas and Saint Paul Videos so we can see how it's done!
http://statter911.com/2011/06/23/pre-arrival-video-las-vegas-house-fire/
http://statter911.com/2011/10/14/early-video-apartment-fire-in-st-paul-minnesota/
Strike the Box – K
Well here we go!!! Here comes all the folks that said "You weren't there" at their call. Kinda makes me laugh at this site. And no I am not from the state of California, or no where near there for that fact.
That was painful to watch. My dept would have done it differently, and more quickly.
They need some east coast boys to show them some basic firefighting.
those guys shoudl not accept their pay checks this week.
those guys should not accept their pay checks this week.
What a shame.
As I said it appears they were waiting on the second unit. Probably to comply with the 2 in 2 out mandates. That being said I'm not sure they couldn't have begun lobbing water onto the fire from a "safe distance" and not exposing themselves to IDLH atmosphere.
I'm not necessarily a fan of these rules but what this should speak to is the fact that you need more manpower on each rig. Doubt it will sell though. Bean counters will say it's an acceptable loss. Until that loss is their's or their family's.
2 in/2 out counts for interior attack or "entering the hot zone"…not for opening up and darkening it down from the exterior. If you're waiting for sufficient manpower to go inside, then at least DO SOMETHING while you wait.
My 2 cents from Calif.
If this were a "Disaster movie" I'd ask for my money back.
This is the second fireground video I've seen of : "Fire vs Ventura City or Co. FD" and "Fire Wins"!
I was about 150 miles from the fire when it occured and the "Micro Climate" where I was, was very little wind. From what I've seen in this video, at the fire , the winds I'd estimate using the "Beaufort Wind Scale" at a "Moderate Breeze" or 11-16 Mph, Possibly "Fresh Breeze 17-21 Mph.
I agree 5:30 mins is a long time to get water in to the line and start working. Some of their Engines probably have CAFS Systems and I'm surprised they didn't use this mode of operation during the Initial Attack on the fire, if Staffing-2 In/2 Out were an issue using the "Old Nozzleman" method of "Indirect Attack".
But as with everyone else i wasn't there, but it seems as though the fire "Self Vented" Horizontally on the "B/C Corner", going by where the attack like is going through the door.
Overall, on a scale of 1-10, I'd give this fire a "3.5". Initial "Defensive" Operations on what should have been "Offensive".
2 in 2 out… come on man…. not needed if you just pick up the hose and lift it over the fence a little than take it through the open gate and go to the shed and open the door and at least hit it from there without going in until the other 2 arrive for 2 in and 2 out. Embers down wind? how about open the deck gun and shoot it up in the air and let the wind carry some water down wind to at least start knocking down embers.. Strike the Box! K
Wow, I said in the Penns Grove post, "calmness is contagious", but a little urgency here, and getting that first line in service would have probably saved the RV. I hope the crews watch this video and honestly critique themselves. Lot's of questions about the procedures on this one.
Can`t fight fire with helmets that look like that..Thank goodness for east coast old school leathers.. Good looking engines though~ but those helmets have got to go!
2 in, 2 out would be BS in this situation as already stated.
God help us if we have to start waiting for 2 out before doing anything other than stretching a line at a fire.
Someone should show this video to the homeowners insurance company and let the insurance company subrogate against the fire department…..they just plain look negligent! I agree with the post above that says the first fire fighter should have gone through the fence opening and started hitting the shed immediately. There was no sense of urgency what so ever. the camper wasn't even on fire when the first firemen arrived; it should have been saved. This is tragic. Ventura's fire department needs a lot of training!
I am not the least bit impressed by this fire department. The guy with the garden hose appeared to be doing a better job than the supposed professionals. Then the fireman with the hatchet, he was a joke too. I as a woman could have had that gate down and more than likely we could have gotten the trailer out of there before it went up in flames. They appeared to be on a Union Break the way they did everything all ahead slow. One more example of how government workers are way over paid and there should not be a union or huge retirements.
Hardly reminds one of the NYFD on 9/11. Maybe Ventura needs five or six more fire stations. And increase the retirement perk.
the apparent property damage and increasing fire in those high winds, due to dicking around instead of knocking flames down pronto, seems unequivocally negligent. oddly, this event was reported as a "granny flat" fire, which is false, but supports the heightened city crackdown on substandard and unpermitted structures — kind of a self serving false political twist that adds insult to injury — not cool