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Oak Bluffs firefighters fought a fire at the corner of Spruce Avenue and Chestnut Avenue on New Year's Day, but their efforts were in vain. The first fire company arrived just before 3 pm, but a delay ensued when, firefighters say, they connected their hoses to an authentic-looking fire hydrant that was apparently being used as a lawn ornament.
The hydrant, which was around the corner from the Jackson’s home, was inside a dog pen and the department has been getting a lot of criticism for not knowing it wasn’t a working hydrant.
“Folks are saying we should know every single working hydrant in the town, and I just feel bad for my guys,” said (Oak Bluffs Deputy Fire Chier Tony) Ferriera. “They’re all volunteers and it’s kind of hurtful in a way. They work really hard and they save the towns millions of dollars every year.”
From Martha's Vineyard Gazette:
“My guys wasted precious time hooking up to a fire hydrant that was nonexistent,” Chief Ferreiro said. “In a fire, time is everything.”
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No Blame from me. Not meaning to monday morning quarterback either.
I really don't want to say anything against what these guys did.
I think we all see these so called ornaments that shouldn't be used that way. I know of a few. So, I guess the best thing to say is learn from this situation and move on.
This is a excellent example of why a hydrant should be flushed before hooking up.
No excuses , whether you're a career or volunteer you should know the location of your hydrants and have a pre-plan/map book with their location as a back up.
dude i'm a volunteer myself my district is over 60 sq miles with an AVERAGE of 12 hydrants per sq mile. 60*12=720. AVERAGE. There are over 1000 hydrants in my district and we run mutual aid for districts around us (some of which are bigger) all the time and you expect me to know the exact location of all of them? if we see a hydrant were not gonna run back to the apparatus open up a book, already filled with hundreds of pages, and sift through the pages to make sure it's "our" hydrant. if your dying of dehydration and you see water you not gonna ask if it's poland spring or dasani. you f*cking take it. these people do their damndest, don't ask for a thank you, RISK THEIR LIVES TO SAVE YOURS FOR LITERALLY NOTHING BUT VOLUNTEER HOURS THAT THEY WILL DO NOTHING WITH and you sit here and act like a selfish sh*t. like your f*cking perfect. how about you go run into a burning building? ill drag your smoldering corpse out to show people what is a very real possibility for us every time that call comes in.
You wanna know what a typical day is like for a volunteer especially when they get that call? Their at the store with their husband/wife/son/daughter, or eating dinner with their family or spending time with their extended family on christmas/yule/haunikah and they drop everything (cause they have nothing better to do but to help your *ss right?) and leave potentially never to see their family again. all the while you sit there b*tch slapping them because in a desperate attempt to save someone's belongings, their life whatever it may be, they made a mistake. and if they don't get hurt or killed. they just took 5+ hours out of their day, on christmas, wasted their gas money, put useless miles on their car, put their lives in serious danger, and they don't even get 2 cents to show up and 9 times out of 10 don't even get that tear jerking 'thanks'. why? because someone asked for help. would you do that for someone else? risk your life for some person you've never seen before in your life for little more then one word? no. that's why your not a volunteer anything jack*ss
Tim's reply just made me want to kick Joe's ass.
To my counterpart in Oak Bluffs take the criticism as a learning tool and understand that from Mr.Mrs.Public what appears to be the case may not always be such. From time to time we hear of these scenarios on the Blogs. Unless ones district has fewer than a dozen hydrants, without detailed maps that we carry on the apparatus following accepted industry hydrant placement this is a possible outcome anywhere. The fact you mention you have strictly volunteers makes it all the more difficult as in the heat of the moment and the stress of an actual event may not always process what they are seeing, ie a hydrant behind a residential fence and why perhaps that might be located there? I mean if it looks like a duck right, it must be a duck its just human nature.
From the footage I really do not think a minute or two wasted connecting to the non existent hydrant would have saved this Victorian, it looked like it had a good hold on the responding crews and was hardly the only reason why it went the way it did. Its always easier for the blame to be placed on the good guys (us) it makes the lesser peoples feel better, I always use these types of scenarios for Public Education.
Run the video scenario of the clip from the first in point, explain the first arriving apparatus needs to locate a fire hydrant, let the citizen (ff) play the role of identifying, have the radios going full traffic, Q's wailing, pump it up and have them spot the hydrant(s) and make their selection. Wonder what the outcome will be?? We tried this with our local Press, tv-radio and was a huge sucess getting the first in view approach, for them to understand the whys from our perspective. Its now an annual event at the Training Academy. I do realize this is not the Press making the criticisms here rather the general public, same approach to the critics can be used successfully and hey why not get your local news people in on the game as well. Consider it paying it forward and a good investment.
I am sure it was a somewhat demoralizing event for your members, no one likes to look foolish or not knowing there job on the fireground. The job has changed remarkably in my 38 years, everyone in JQ Public are expert firefighters now and we in the business are far too critical armchair quarterbacks to others fires, the real lessons sometimes get lost. Until such time as a machine (robot) can be manufactured to take our place the (human element) will always exists and with it sometimes mistakes or oversights happen. We learn, improve,drill and overcome the adversity and move on. The mere fact your members showed up says volumes for What Happens If No Comes, let us hope the fine folk of Oak Bluffs never experience that.
Give the Members a big hug and thank them for their efforts!! Conduct a PIA (Post Incident Analysis) correct any deficiencies and then move on, there always will be another alarm!!.
Happy New Year to All. Chief Out
Chief
You are AWESOME for standing up for these guys!!!
Northern Firefighter
Unfortunately, we can't stop some idiot from having a fake fire hydrant in their yard. There are more of these out there than you would probably think. What we can do is be familar with your first due and open and flush the hydrant breifly before you commit your entire fireground operation to it. This will ensure it has water and no obstructions and only takes a few seconds especially if you have a 2.5" gate valve in your hydrant bag. Stay Safe Brothers!
Without seeing the hydrant, its hard to pass blame. Although from my personal expierence, most of them clue you in that they aren't real. Be it their color, positioning, or orientation to the street (not to say no real hydrants share these characteristics). But without knowing how this one was, who knows.
My town grew from 20,000 to 30,000 in the last decade. There are more new streets (and hydrants) than can be remembered. Yes, we have a mapbook of the town, but if it's a short response distance, a good look in the book might not be possible. I agree, flushing the hydrant is critical, but if the hose is already layed, then you're still gonna have a delay if the primary hydrant is dry, broken, or nonexistant.
But it was in a dog pen. How meny working hydrants do you know of that are in a dog pen. Come on guys.
There is a working hydrant in my first due which is fenced in, twice. The home owner has an issue with the city and did it out of spite. Multiple agencies have attempted to have the fences removed, but they have no legal foothold. Apparently, the city didn't locate the hydrant properly…I'm not well-versed in property easement law, so I can't give you too many details. Of course, we are well aware of its location…and more than prepared to gain access to it if it is ever needed. Just proof that there are some oddly located hydrants out there.
Yes I know that there are hydrants that are in fenced in yards. But it is stated that the hydrant is in a dog pen. And the hydrant that is the fenced in yard you are well aware of its location.
If you were ever a Firefighter you would KNOW that Fire Hydrants are like Easter Eggs. They're hidden in tall grass, around the back side of buildings, in very BIZARRE AREAS, behind fences and more often than not contain things within them that no one likes!!!
Northern Firefighter
I was over 25 years of service. The dept. is over 1000 members strong.
Sorry, Chief…FAIL.
Knowledge of your local, combined with good mapping (address numbers & hydrants) sure helps prevent these kind of events. i don't like the "we're just vollies" crutch, either.
My vollie house has had township station maps & books in the rigs with house numbers & hydrant locations since the mid-80s. That project was done by our members at only the price of materials. Every piece of new development since has been updated into the maps as they happen. The knowledge gained by us old farts from that project is routinely passed along during drills (good bad weather drills), shoveling out hydrants after snow, ridin' thru the hood, etc. The drop-off when rolling into mutual aid areas, where you have to play "find the hydrant" is huge.
I HATE when people use the "we're volunteers" excuse. There is no excuse for it. Yes, we should all know our first due, but in some places, that is thousands of hydrants. If you are that good to remember all of them, then you are in the wrong profession. I agree that maps/CAD layouts would have helped, but the 1st due is ever changing. Anyways, get out, learn your first due, learn from your mistakes, and pick up your head. I'm sure this isn't the first time this has happened in the USA; with the internet, many things that "never happened before" occur on video for everyone to see. BTW, I'm a Volly.
When our departments get dispatched to structure fires, the hydrant locations are given right along with the rest of the dispatch, same with standpipe locations etc where applicable, and all the information is kept up to date. If there's a new subdivision, all the hydrants are located & we have routine flushing as well. We have had several houses that have had fake/ornamental hydrants in the front yard, but it was noted, and everyone is aware of it.
Something out of the ordinary like that should be noted somewhere, and unless there's hundreds of fake hydrants in the response area, these few exceptions should have been brought up & passed on to the members. We're all human, and mistakes will be made. It's a bet that this will be a learning experience for this department & they can move forward with a new way to approach their hydrants.
I wonder how many times the dog dumped its master stream on that hydrant. Another classic example of why every apparatus should carry cold fire
Looks to me like the aerial is applying something other than plain water. We don't use ColdFire, so I don't know what it looks like. I agree with Chief 62…I don't see where there's a whole lot to save inthe first place. This was probably a good time to make a hydrant mistake.
Looks like they're using Class A foam and it appears to be doing the job here, good job crew!
Saves on water too.
ALL hydrants good, bad, working & NOT working should be marked and logged. As part of our hydrant ID program we painted the lawn decorating hydrants FLAT BLACK and placed them on the locator pages (NO mistakes that way). Pissed some residents off but when we explained WHY most of them just took them out.
I got on the job 24 years ago became a pump operator in 3 months. On my own time I drove the 12.5 sq miles of my town and physically looked at the locations of over 800 hydrants……why because when TSHTF i want to be ahead of the game. Love your job, do your job and above all know your job!.
One thing I want to add to this is the element of dispatch. Take this oppurtunity to re-visit the dispatching proceedures in your locale. When we get called to a worker, our dispatch includes the units being called, the location, AND THE NEAREST, and SECOND fire hydrants to the location. AKA: Station 1234 you're responding to a report of a working structure fire at 9876 Somewhere Ave, your nearest hydrants are at the intersection of Somewhere and Main street, and Somewhere and Second Street. This way, your first few trucks can make plans en route as to who will hit which hydrant – sometimes this requires taking different routes of approach to the firescene.
Use this to your advantage. Re-visit the dispatch proceedures and see if hydrant locations can be worked into your standard alarm proceedures.
Flush. the. hydrant.
In this case, it never should have gotten that far…unless, of course, they want to say no one ever noticed this hydrant inside a fenced yard before, or, they all saw it but never considered it the least bit unusual or worth checking out. Kinda makes you wonder what else might be lying in wait in plain sight out there for them.
TRAIN…LEARN…TRAIN…LEARN…………..AND THEN, TRAIN SOME MORE.
You can also get GPS's with each hydrant marked for you .
That's great, but who's gonna pay for it if you can't afford it?
If there isn’t there should be a law banning the use of retired fire hydrants as decorations. Just the princeple of the fact fire fighters are relying that city mainteance is insuring that all hydrants are in working order. The other fact is fire fighters are cocerned for the wellbeing of person and property and should not have to know wether the hydrant is plumbed to the system or a decoration.