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Earlier coverage of story
A chaotic scene unfolded outside Middle School 72 in Jamaica, Queens, on Wednesday night as several men who wanted to attend a tutorial workshop for the upcoming FDNY entrance exam were turned away.
These men said it was because they were white. The Workshop was being hosted by the Vulcan Society, a fraternal organization of black firefighters, which apparently only let in people who got a special e-mail.
Many applicants were referred to the Vulcan Society test by Deputy Chief Paul Mannix, who heads a group called “Merit Matters,” which calls for even-handed entry requirements regardless of race.
Image from WCBS-TV.
He said it wasn’t a stunt. “We feel that for your best opportunity to do well on the test the Vulcan’s test is a good test. They hit the nail on the head last time with those unique types of questions,” Mannix said.
Wednesday night’s class was the third in a series of prep exams given by the Vulcan Society. The previous two were integrated. The one Wednesday was the only one from which people were barred from attending.
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Also on STATter911 …
- Race or space? Details on a confrontation at FDNY candidates’ tutoring workshop put on by Vulcan Society. – March 1, 2012
- Almost three-thousand applicants must redo interview process in Austin, Texas. Chief Rhoda Mae Kerr talks about anonymous copy of oral exam she received. – May 20, 2011
- Jury rules for firefighters claiming cheating in 2010 Atlanta Fire Rescue promotional exam. Class action suit victory on behalf of 160 firefighters. City may appeal. – February 18, 2012
- Latest from DC: Chief Kenneth Ellerbe moves forward with demotion of battalion chief over handling of discipline from beer incident at firehouse. – March 22, 2012
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We have the Vulcan Society, a fraternal organization of black firefighters. Is there a fraternal organization of white firefighters? OMG, this would be racist!
To be excluded from an opportunity to become a firefighter is wrong black or white. For a white person to feel racially discriminated is probably an odd feeling. For a black person, they face it almost on a daily basis is normal. I can see why the Vulcans are trying to educate minority applicants about the entrance exam, There is along history of "old boy" mentality or nepotism in FDNY. They are being taught what to expect to see on the test. A lot of the white firefighters have brothers, uncles and fathers that have been in the dept. for decades. These young candidates are instructed at an early age about the intricacies of being an NY firefighter.
It seems to me, that the other night was more of show of defiance. The guys seem to look for a confrontation, instead of trying to gain entrance into the seminar. If there is more sessions and you want to attend, make sure you RSVP your e-invite. Make a copy to show when you get to the door. Everyone knows that word gets out before an announcement is made to apply to become a firefighter. I'm sure other fraternal groups such as Christian Firefighter or the Emerald society hold pre-test classes too.
If the Vulcans allow everyone in next time, will they still be accused of doing some wrong because they exceeded the occupancy requirements of the room and the Fire Marshall will have to shut it down?
On a daily basis? Really? So, you think this practice is ok? What about the white person who doesn't have an uncle, brother or father who is on the job? I guess it's just too bad for him he' s white?
I didn't have anyone teaching me what to look for. I worked hard, studied on my own, and went to the gym like a mad man to get a job as a FF. And I was told by a Lt at a physical test that I would have to excel at everything because I was white! It wasn't good enough to score well on written and physical tests because I am white!
Please, enlighten me and the rest of us how that's OK? Best person for the job, NO MATTER WHAT! Throw percentages out the window.
And, if you listen to the audio, one of them does try to show them his confirmation RSVP. That's when he said it wasn't his decision.
Hmmmm,
Where to begin the FDNY has no history of "old boy" or Nepotism. I would like you to cite where in the DOJ EEOC charge where this can be found? (Hint it aint there!) FDNY hiring for a century has been dictated by NYS and NYC civil service law. Strict race-blind Objective civil service exams as created and administered by DCAS (the old personnell dept) This agency is only 34% white.
Are we to believe you that this agency which does ALL NYC civil service exams found a way so that a written exam for firefighter would benefit white applicants while harming only blacks? (Hispanics have generally a superior passing rates)
The only defiance I see is defiance against hypocrisy of a biased organization that purports to be a perpetual vicitim yet find no problem in discriminating against others. Defiance against an openly racist organization.
You and others keep repeating the same lies and falsehoods hoping the meme will stick…well unfortuately people aren't as easily duped
Excellent post. Well said.
A union means 1
Is it true that non-whites make up less than 5% of this angency, I am sure their have been applicants of other races who can pass the test. The days of this being are thing have past yet remain the same. Instead of confronting NYPD obtain your facts and move on, their actions confirm this angency has a long ways to go.
The all encompassing category of "Whites" comprise about 90% of the firefighters. Not sure what relevance this has as their has been and currently is Equal Opportunity in the FDNY as is with ALL NYC agencies.
You are correct people of all races, creeds, colors…etc. can and do pass the exam. What is "this" being in the past? Civil Service Merit and Fitness? Objective standards? All members of the FDNY have passed the exams and proven they are the best qualified for the job.
Which agency has a long way to go and why? I'm curious at your inference.
Is it really that hard to get into the FDNY? Study sessions? Really
The short answer is, Yes. The FDNY hires based partially on your test scores…or at least they used to. You are one of approx. 25,000 applicants, and need to obtain the highest score possible in order to make yourself the most desirable candidate. Especially now that the Government has stepped in and forced the FDNY to change the style of the exam to target minorities, instead of challenging ALL applicants in order to obtain the most qualified. Nobody ever reports on the fact that for YEARS the NYPD was giving the Same Exact style of exam to hire applicants as the FDNY, and you never once heard minorities screaming that the test was discriminatory. The old NYPD and FDNY exams were written to an 8th grade level and were $hit simple. Those tests were all about time management and cognitive ability. I would think that any minority, who wasn't looking to gain anything based on their race, would be insulted by the fact that others were claiming that they aren't as smart as a white person. It's amazing to me that some minorities would actually rather go with the argument "We're not as smart as white people so the test discriminates against us" instead of just admitting that there are far less minority applicants to the FDNY, than white applicants. This is just another exam of racism, discrimination and division created by the Government in the name of making everything "Fair" and "Equal."
Lowering the hiring standards is the reason why recent crops of probationary firefighters can't make it through the rookie schools, are getting arrested for drug possession and burglary, repeatedly arrive late to work, think everything is owed to them and don't want to actually work to gain respect and a positive reputation. Good station assignments are given to those who actually want to put forth the effort to earn them . And that goes for white and minority recruits.
I'm so tired of Government support discrimination and racism in the name of making everyone Equal.
Philly has a similar organization, the Valiants (must be a "V" thing). There have been similar suggestions of impropriety in hiring, promotions and discipline, especially under the term of the current FD commish, who happens to be a member of the club.
Uhhhhh Have you seen what's going on in DC lately. Sorry this is a new feeling for you guys, look at the shift in command staff and aides. A "level playing feild" where the "stars can shine" is the wave that will undo the injustices of the 60's and 70's. Do I agree with it? NO. but it's happening.
This is prep test not a job. Let's see what happens after the test and the hiring process before we scream reverse discrimination.
The physical and written test have become so watered down that a 13 year old boy could pass the test. Is this the sort of Fire Department that NYC deserves? Simply terrible.
All I am saying is let a white guy tell a bunch of black guys they cant do something and you have THOUSANDS up in arms…..
we have that International Black FF's here as well what a crock the only union is the IAFF thats the only brother hood that should matter. They are guilty of the same thing they accuse us of segrigation
Our organizations and societies are a hypocracy. Black Entertainment Television, Vulcan Society, United Negro College Fund, etc….it seems as if these organizations are ok and accepted by everyone but if I created the United Caucasian Society that would be "wrong." However….only a white man would walk into a gymnasium full of mexicans on one side, blacks on another and say "wow…look at all these minorities!"
Raciism is matter of convenience. If it works in your favor then it's ok. We need to break down those barriers, doesn't matter if you are black, white, yellow, brown, green, blue, male female or a combination of both…if you can do the job, who cares.
against Raciism is matter of convenience says
It's simple as this, The list had no white persons name on it or were they just admitting black people only, , now think of this ! Black Entertainment Television, Black History MONTH?, NOT A WEEK OR A DAY Vulcan Society, United Negro College Fund, Miss Black America and yet Miss America is for every young women, People The Pendulum has swung to far to the other side , it would seem that Raciism is matter of convenience to a certain Race , do not white people have poor family's , and poor white kids that can't afford college , Is there not white people who can entertain, is there not white women who could be a Miss America,
As much as people are complaining this was an invitation sent out by the vulcan society and in the email it specically says admission is limited to those who got the email invitation from the vulcan society. not an invitation from Deputy Chief Paul Mannix. who is not a part of the Organiation. This test prep was not organied by the FDNY. IT organized by The vulcan society with their own money and they have the right to invite and not invite anyone that they want.
Whoever thinks the Vulcan society can invite who they want and keep people out, you’re an idiot. The review sessions took place in public buildings and were supported by public funding. This is absolutely rediculous, people looking for handouts based on race or who you know won’t make good fireman. Firemen should be hired based on their own merits and test scores. I took the test, I am a volunteer fireman and I’m shipping out with the navy after I finish college. If I don’t get a higher score on the test then anyone else regardless of race or sex, they deserve to be hired before me. I don’t have any sense of entitlement, it baffles me how people think they are entitled to a job with the FDNY based on anything other than a high score on the test