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Read internal investigation of the incident
Should firefighters from the local volunteer fire department duty crew be on the roof of the mayor’s home removing shingles with the fire trucks parked out front? That’s the question in Pine Hill, New Jersey after that exact scenario took place on April 6, Good Friday.
WCAU-TV put an investigative reporter on the case after neighbors sent in cell phone pictures. The cameras were rolling when the neighbors confronted Mayor Christopher Green ten days later.
Mayor Green contends he did nothing wrong and that the firefighters were there to help his son who is a junior member of the department.
“They drove the fire truck down to my house, so that if they got a call, they could go to the call,” said Mayor Green.
“What if they fell off your roof and couldn’t go to a call?” asked one resident during the meeting. “How are you going to explain that? Who was going to pay for them if they fell off your roof?”
“I would have paid for them,” answered Mayor Green. “When individual members ask for assistance they help each other.”
“Regarding sending the apparatus with a full duty crew so that the truck will be at the ready, I feel I made the right decision and I’d make the same decision tomorrow,” said Pine Hill Fire Chief John Greer.
An internal investigation done by the city’s personnel director (also a former mayor) found that Mayor Green did nothing wrong. The chief, who was one of those helping out on the roof, says he is thinking of quitting because the department has become a “political football” in this episode.
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Also on STATter911 …
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- Must listen to audio: Year-old secret recording of North Providence, RI mayor dressing down firefighter. – September 8, 2012
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Wow! The mayor’s 17 year old son took it upon himself to replace the roof! Who said today’s youth is lazy?
I wonder how money the mayor saved with his cheap labor?
Is there more to this “story”? Or is this just another case of “I’ve got a cell phone with a camera, so now I am an investigative reporter uncovering scandal?”
I could see some righteous indignation if this was a career company going out of their first due area or out of service and unavailable for calls, but COME ON! This is a local volly outfit within their town limits and AVAILABLE TO RESPOND!
Ridiculous!
Oh come on already. This type of thing happens in every small town across America. The vols help each other out on all kinds of large projects (same as the paid crews except they can’t take the trucks). If they are on duty they take the truck with them so they can respond to calls. We regularly took our trucks to each others house while ‘on duty’ to place trees, move furniture, etc, whatever someone needed help with. Besides, the vol is never really ‘off’ duty. So, why NOT have a truck nearby so you can help out your buddy AND respond if there is an emergency?
I totally agree.
It was a roof operations training drill , on to proper way to remove roof shingles on a fire building to check for extention of possible fire .
it
What a waste of taxpayer dollars!!!! I am sure the $8 or $10 they spent in gas getting down there and back will break the city coffers!!! A huge price to pay versus a delayed response when someone is trapped in their burning house, having a stroke or pinned in their car against a telephone pole
Volunteer fire departments have a long history of helping (and dying for) people for free. They help complete strangers and each other all the time for no more justification then it is the right thing to do, why is there a problem with them hepling one of their own?
The people who are bent out of shape over this need to find something better to occupy their time.
Is there really such a thing as small-town America with camera phones and The Internet, anymore?
But isn’t this what firefighters do? Help each other out. Remember this is a volunteer crew.
Maybe it bothered people that the rig was out there, but I can see the reasoning behind it. No one wanted the roofing job to take away from response time. If they were going to have a full crew there anyway, I personally don’t see it as a bad call.
It would be a shame if the chief left his post — a volunteer position that he has trained for, for years — because of this.
Hang in there Chief. This too shall pass.
Chief Greer proud of your decision too support your troops, knowing you for 20 plus years as a man with standards I am sure this is political move and not improper use of volunteers helping one another.
Citizens looking for a story because they don’t trust government. This is a non story that a few idiot neighbors of the mayor and trying to turn into a story. NICE JOB PINE HILL for helping a fellow volley redo the roof and staying available for the citizens you serve!
It is absolutely ridiculous that people are complaining about this. These people have no clue what it’s like to be part of this Brotherhood. And they will never get it. People now don’t help out their neighbors because they might be inconvienced. Chief, don’t quit over this BS. You and your crew do a hell of a job for your town. Don’t let some idiots ruin that.
This is terrible. they should get rid of those volunteers and hire a full time department at a cost of X million. that will teach those volunteers to waste resources!
{/sarcasm}
If you watch the video you will notice that the fire apparatus was NEVER used in connection with any work at all. The volunteer firefighters were at the Mayor’s home working and had the fire apparatus there for them to respond should there be a call. The woman that is causing the biggest stink must have a “hard-on” for the Mayor. In my opinion, no harm, no foul!
Mike makes a really good point about small town America. In this particular case, I think the people complaining are political opponents of the Mayor. Someone who posted a Facebook comment said this would not have been an issue if it didn’t occur at the Mayor’s house and I tend to agree with that. I hope the average citizen has not become so jaded that they will complain about Volunteer FD’s doing this kind of thing. Where would it stop, would we not be able to go to a block party or child’s birthday party if requested? Looking at the town website, it would appear that this FD is controlled by a Fire District, not the town. In NJ, a fire district is governed by fire commissioners who are elected by the public. All expenses are paid by a seperate fire tax imposed on property owners. I’m not so naive to think that in a small town, the Mayor may not have influence on the fire commissioners, but I don’t think there was any malice in this case. The people complaining also need to understand who controls the FD and how their expenses are covered.
It would have been really nice also if the “investigative reporter” covered these issues as well because they didn’t seem to mention anywhere that the Mayor does not oversee the FD, the Board of Fire Commissioners does. I don’t mind “investigative reporting”, but report the whole story, don’t just try to sensationalize something that probably isn’t all that sensational.
You guys are missing the point. This is not acceptable anymore. You want to help a guy out, fine. Take your POV. If this okay, why not take the rig home every night? What’s the difference? The difference is, taxpayers pay the bills and they don’t like it! Period! We all know that if they (The mayor and his family) weren’t connected to the department, the rigs wouldn’t be there. There is a double standard that exist and we, the fire service, need to stop following it. Stay above the line fellas.
Must be a slow news day for you Dave, quite a non story…
I don’t know. NOt at all slow for me Lizard. Lots of stories. Seems to hve generated some discussion. That’s what it’s all about.
Statter
True, it has generated some discussion. Some of the FB discussion about this issue posted on NBC 10 page is very interesting.
Lizard,
I get this distinction that it’s a volunteer crew and I am also not that big of a fan of the way it was presented by the TV station (this was a May sweeps investigative exclusive), but I think there are some very legitimate issues that are being glossed over too easily by those defending this. I should also say that when I was a volunteer in the 70s we did some things just like this including driving the fire truck down to our chief’s farm stand and helping him unload Christmas trees.
Here are the questions I have for those who think it’s perfectly okay:
1. Would it be okay for a career crew to do? If volunteers want to be seen as professionals does this send the right message when you advocate a different standard here?
2. Did they use any ladders from the rigs? Would that be okay?
3. The question that was asked of the mayor about who pays if someone gets injured is a very good one. These volunteers are an assigned duty crew arriving at this location on a fire truck. While I am not a lawyer, I have a hard time believing the insurance for the fire district wouldn’t have some liability here, esepcially if there is a serious injury. It’s easy for the mayor to say he has it covered, but does he? Imagine if someone fell off the roof and was paralyzed. Is the mayor going to cover that medical care and loss of income? If the mayor doesn’t have those resources who do you think the injured party will be filing a lawsuit again. My guess is the folks with the deep pockets. What do you think?
Statter
Again,
My personal opinion is provided it the crew got done with all normal required duties such as apparatus check out, they were avaible for calls, and were in their first due, I wouldn’t care if they were paid or volunteer. Now if they were ordered to assist, and/or refused to go on calls then that would be a different story.
I also wouldnt care if they used items from the rig, provided they were’nt one time use items, perks of the service. I would compare to a mechanic when not on the clock using his shop tools to do a side job for themselves or a friend.
The last item is where it gets a little fuzzy. In a litigious society, it most certainly is something to think about. Let me throw out some other questions, had they come over via POV and something had happened, then what? Do you not help out a friend out of fear of something happening? Do you not ask friends for help for the same reasons? What if you are on call and expected to make a home response, are you still covered and by whom?
But I do agree that there may be more to this then what was reported, there may be an agenda here outside the actual issue.
Chief Greer hit it on the head with the comment “political football”. Chief, you should resign and enjoy retirement. Pay you family back for all the lost times serving unappreciative people!
FINE FINE FINE, we won’t do it again. We’ll leave the truck at the Fire Station and take our POV’s to the mayors house. The firehouse ghost will staff the equipment.
I agree with most of the above comments. Much to do about nothing. Pine Hill Station 62 in Camden County is a volunteer department on nights and weekends and has a small staff during weekdays to man the 1st due apparatus. They also a duty crew system and platoons in place (volunteers) for overnight coverage to get the 1st due out quickly. These guys and girls are a good group and do not deserve the bad publicity they are receiving from this politcally motivated attack.
Hey Mr. Schmidt, why don’t you, get in shape, and join the volunteer fire department; and be an advocate for the fire service instead of an advocate for publicity and ignorance. Your energies could be better put to good use supporting the local fire station instead of “hammering” the volunteer firefighters who are trying to help out a neighbor and a junior member. Seems like the apparatus was parked at the curb and ready to go to a response if one occurred. Maybe your attitude would be different if you had the emergency at your home or with a member of your family. You are one piece of work. Until you walk in their shoes its hard to have an accurate opinion. “If it looks bad it has to be bad,” what load of horse manure.
I think the chief made a good call. No harm done, just some of the neighbors have an axe to grind.
If the apparatus hadn’t been there, this would be a non-story.
Even though the apparatus was there, it’s still a non-story.
A few years ago a bunch of us turned out to paint the house of a member with cancer. Every single person there was a volunteer firefighter. But we didn’t bring along a truck, so it I guess it was OK [/sarcasm]…
Sheesh.
What if they hadn’t brought the rig and went POV and then a call comes in for a fire with one trapped. Then, due to the delay, the person trapped dies. The headline then would be “Person Dies while Volunteers work on mayors house.” Again, I commend them for finding a way to help a collegue and still staff apparatus, no harm done.
It seems all you jizz pants are sticking up for the mayor and the Fire Chief, so you all must be members of the volly dept. First and foremost the apparatus belong to the taxpayers and you are given the privilege to use it for emergency runs and training. I don’t wanna hear your BS that it was for roof top training, that can be done at the station, made by you so called roofers by making a makeshift roof, cheaper and safer. There is no reason for the apparatus to be there, showoffs, you always know your in the limelight by bring attention to yourself by being dumb in front of the public, as a full time career fire chief i fire your asses and remove the Chief for being stupid. Good luck and hopefully good riddance for you stupidity,
Chief, I am not a member of Pine Hill, and with all due respect, I am so impressed with your professional comments. You must be such a joy to work for.
Do the apparatus actually belong to the taxpayers? Were they paid for with tax money or were they paid for with donations, fundraisers, etc? I work in a career big city department and yes, the rigs belong to the taxpayers, but I think many of these volunteer departments own their own equipment (correct me if I am wrong). If this is the case, the only cost to the taxpayers was the fuel it took for the rigs to get a couple of blocks to the mayors house. Hell, I’ll send them a check to cover that. Chief Greer, don’t resign, it will send the wrong message. Keep plugging away, deliver the service, and make the decisions that you were put in the position to make. Kudos to you and your department.
Its funny that everyone backs the chief but you have to ask yourself, do you know all the facts? There are 2 sides to every story then there is the truth. Clearly although the fire truck wasn’t being used, did I not see turnout boots in the video? How about the shots of the fireman loading equipment in the truck? One would have to wonder if they used that equipment on the roof. Who would replace it? Then you go on to say the mayor has no bearing on the fire commission? You should know he just resigned from the commission when he was elected mayor and they appointed the mayor who just finished his term. To say the commission is elected is 1/2 true. The voters in pine hill have no choice when it comes to elections, everyone runs unopposed. Regardless of what happened being right or wrong, the important fact is that public safety is under fire in NJ. They are laying off, discussing mergers, and working on regionalization. Is it a smart idea to present yourself to the public like this? The public sees things for what they are. There’s little respect in the community for public safety personnel because of the negativity, how in the world is it okay to give anyone a “stick to beat you with”?
Anonymous, how is saying the Commissioners are elected 1/2 true? A public vote is held, if people choose not to vote or not to run and allow uncontested elections, either they don’t care or are happy with the current administrations. It is interesting that the Mayor was a former fire commissioner. Obviously the Mayor and Council and Board of Commissioners work closely for better or for worse. You do make a valid point about public safety being under attack, but that is not exclusive to New Jersey. Layoffs are never good, but well thought out mergers and/or regionalization may not always be a bad thing in the State of Home Rule, aka New Jersey.
Former Chief, I was saying 1/2 true because the fire commissioner that was involved in the investigation was appointed to his seat to fulfill a vacancy prior to actually being elected from what is being reported. He is currently fulfilling the unexpired term of the newly appointed mayor. Also, voters don’t have a choice on who they vote for because all of them run unopposed with no choice but to either vote for who is running or not vote at all. It is very sad that no one runs against them, but most people don’t like to stand up for themselves. I do understand that public safety is under attack in all areas of the united states, but NJ is pounding regionalization hard and while communities are battling it out in court to try and prevent it, they are loosing battles left and right. I firmly believe that we need our public safety personnel both paid and volunteer but perception is important in winning a battle those are fighting. I am not going to say that what happened in pine hill is right or wrong but does it look good to those around? I don’t believe so. The FD can plead their case about it being volunteers, brotherhood, etc. but I can’t believe that no one can admit that it was a decision that they wouldn’t make again. If firefighting is as tight of a brotherhood as those around us are saying, what would have happened if a fireman fell off the roof because a call went out? would the volunteers leave their brother on the ground and carry on?
Their stupidity? you have a screen name that reads Chief Ura Nutz and your talking about their stupidity? Seriously, this is what volunteers do for each other. If it was another members house other than the mayor, would this be an issue?
Thank god WCAU (out of Philadelphia) is able to track down these heinous activities… I guess next time they can leave the apparatus at the firehouse, and then someone can b*tch that it took them so long to get their cat out of the tree, etc, etc.
Let me first say that this reporter from NBC10 Harry Hairston is an horrible journalist. He will throw anyone under the bus to get a story. And in my opinion that is not a good journalism. I agree that stories need to be told and maybe at a price. But this reporter stories are non stories.
With this story all the facts are not present. He interviews two loud mouth people that do not understand how the volunteer fire service works or how the municipality is operated.
Just some little facts about Pine Hill Boro NJ.
The town is about 4 sqaure miles with a population of 10k people.
The towns yearly budget is roughly 9 million dollars a year.
$2 million of that money goes to a full time police department.
The town provides the Pine Hill Fire Department just over 3,000 a year. According to the 2012 budget. http://pinehillboronj.ineedahostonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Pine-Hill_2012_Budget_Adopted.pdf
The town spend $3,000 a year in bullet proof vest for its full time police department.
The resident of the Boro of Pine Hill NJ are getting fire protection for free!
These volunteer give their time for nothing. The risk their lives try to save these residents for free.
So unless they want to pay several million dollars a year for a full time paid municipal fire department, I feel they have no basis to complain.
And some of you may not be aware, but volunteer firefighters in small towns such as Pine Hill are not manned 24 hours a day. So with the firefighters bringing the apparatus with a full crew to do this job. They are actually reduces response time significantly. So realistically the fire chief was considering the residents safety of the town residents when he allowed these guys to take the truck to the mayors house.
As far as insurance. The mayor has homeowners insurance and all homeowners policies have liability coverage. So why would an injury even be submitted to the Boro’s insurance company. What about when the fire trucks ride around with Santa during Christmas. If the fat jolly man fell off the top of the apparatus and was seriously injured the insurance company might balk at that claim.
One final note. All jobs have perks. Some people can go play golf on company time or go out to dinner or go on trips. Heck career firefighters sleep on duty, not too many jobs allow that. So these guys helping out a fellow firefighter and bringing the the engine is a small reward, if any, for risking their lives to protect this town.
I did email Mr Hairston about this story and explained my feelings to him. As I expected I did not receive a response.
Thanks for reading my Rant!
J.D. Brooke
PhillyFireNews.com
@JD excellent reply
The rigs should not be taken out of quarters to do a firefighter a favor. The mayor’s home makes it worse. Tax payers monies were spent moving the rigs. If the Dept. was concerned about response times they would have a small paid crew or a paid driver on duty. This event should not have happened. If the vollies were in their personal vehicles & a call came in, could have driven from the mayor’s house to the firehouse to get the apparatus out like if they were at their own homes.