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UPDATED 11:30 AM: Bel Air VFC sent STATter911.com its official statement about the Facebook postings (click here). Here is an excerpt from the statement:
“This is unacceptable behavior of our membership,” Chief Hopkins said. “I am extremely disappointed and ashamed that any of our members would make these statements. This type of activity has been dealt with swiftly. I cannot express my disappointment to these members enough. They have brought great disrespect to the company, their fellow firefighters and those they serve, you the public, and for that I apologize. I hope that those who are reading this continue to believe in the mission of the Bel Air VFC and continue to trust us with your medical and fire emergencies.” In the coming weeks the Bel Air VFC will be conducting training for all members on the aspects of social media through varied legal experts.
It is unfortunate that, within the same week that volunteer fire organizations in Harford County came together to perform flawlessly during the tornado event and their good names have been tarnished by this childish behavior. It is important for all to know that we as firefighters do this job because we want to and not because we get something material out of it. Firefighters shouldn’t expect something for the job they do nor should they ask for it. Those firefighters that do ask are in it for all the wrong reasons.
EARLIER:
In handling the bad news Bel Air VFC Chief Eddie Hopkins seems, so far, to be making all the right moves. The man who heads the largest firefighting force in Harford County, Maryland, and is also chairman of the Board of Town Commissioners for Bel Air, appears to have tackled this head on after learning Monday morning of the Facebook posts by his members that started May 30. When Bryna Zumer a reporter for ExploreHarford.com first contacted Hopkins that day, even before verifying his members had posted the somewhat threatening remarks to the management of the local Sonic, the chief made it clear what he thought about this, “In my mind, that is pretty egregious and that is a very poor attitude, if they are firefighters.”
Later in the day the chief had identified six of Bel Air’s members who had made posts complaining about the burger joint failing to provide firefighters with the same discount given police and military. Hopkins vowed action.
A day later, Chief Hopkins had some answers when reporter Zumer checked in. Eight members were involved in some form. A demotion, suspensions and a recommendation of termination have taken place for four whose comments Hopkins found to be the most offensive.
Those comments, which included talk about a dumpster fire occurring at the Sonic and the fire department failing to respond to calls for help, sparked some outrage in the community. And why shouldn’t there be outrage? The Facebook postings give the impression of a mob type shakedown where a store owner is told to pay for protection so something awful doesn’t happen to their business.
Judging by the newspaper accounts, Chief Eddie Hopkins assessed the seriousness of this situation immediately and began taking the right actions and sending the right message in order to restore the faith of the community in his department.
Tony Coliano, who is president of Bel Air VFC, was just as clear with his message in an interview yesterday telling WBAL-TV, “You cannot slam this fire company or our citizens or embarrass our fire company as a member of our fire company. That is conduct unbecoming of a member.” Coliano also apologized to firefighters for the actions of the Bel Air members.
Running, hiding and blaming the press, as many do, rarely works. Getting the bad news out of the news as fast as possible by dealing with the issue head on, taking decisive action and providing a clear message should be the goal.
Here’s the latest from Bryna Zumer at ExploreHarford.com:
The chief of Harford County’s largest and busiest fire company says he has suspended three members and demoted a fourth over inappropriate posts that were made on a member’s Facebook page after he complained about not receiving a discount at the Bel Air Sonic drive-in restaurant and some responses suggested they not respond to any fire calls at the business.
One of the three who was suspended was also demoted in rank, BAVFC Chief Eddie Hopkins said Tuesday morning.
Hopkins said further disciplinary action is pending against some of the four, whom he said he has recommended be terminated from the fire company for their actions.
NOTE: I will be holding a class for the Chief’s Leadership Forum at Firehouse Expo on Wednesday, July 18 on handling bad news. The Bel Air VFC Facebook incident has just been added to the program. Come join the discussion.
Also on STATter911 …
- Maryland fire company investigates firefighters over Facebook posts. Bel Air VFC members upset over lack of discount by fast food place. – June 5, 2012
- Suspensions & demotions of ‘top responders’ upheld after Bel Air, MD Sonic Facebook shakedown. Termination of one firefighter pending. – June 26, 2012
- Is it ethical for firefighters & police officers to accept freebies? The Bel Air FD Facebook incident has reporters checking policies regionwide. Some tips from Dave. – June 19, 2012
- Facebook comment takes down another one. Columbus, MS firefighter resigns after controversial post. – September 4, 2012
Comments
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Kudos to Chief Hopkins for taking quick and appropriate action. This kind of attitude and comments have no place in the firehouse. May other depts/Chiefs learn from this incident.
I don’t know maybe it is just me but a firefighter complaining about not getting a discount makes all this news?? Do they really think no one will respond because they did not get a discount?? Was it stupid and immature, very were some statements made even worse absolutely but let it be a lesson even in this forum, if you comment on something and you upset the right or wrong person it may become big news.
I’ve been a firefighter for 18 years and it still baffles me how so many firefighters have this since of entitlement. Such as discounted meals, getting out of tickets and so forth. We are no better than any other citizen. We should be held to a higher standard. Do the right thing, be the example and good things will come to you.
I think the whole think has been blown out of proportion. Although the comments were unfortunate, I believe that were not ill intended. I like to think that these VFF were good citizens but made an error on that particular day. Demotion and dismissal seems to me too much of a punishment. I would have them write a personalized apology to the fast food restaurant manager and personnel and do some community work like clean the restaurant windows, etc. Only punishment does not bring anything back to our society. It rather takes away from it…
ALex VFF, it seems pretty clear to me the leadership of the department is sending a message to its members that you don’t screw with our reputation. I like that they seem to be putting the bond they have with the citizens they serve and the image of the organization as a whole over loyalty to individuals. I also think subtle and not so subtle threats by firefighters to members of the community is a pretty serious offense. Apparently the leadership of the department does too.
That said, it once again shows you that what you post on social media and in Internet forums, no matter how innocent you think it is, can come back and bite you big time. Hopefully someone is learning something from this.
Statter
I can see your point, and even appreciate it. Especially if they haven’t been in trouble before, there might be room for it.
But I can also see the flip side, that these kind of stupid comments are unacceptable.
Wanna bet if these disciplinary actions occur, we won’t be reading about this kind of stupidity out of BelAir again?
I am not sure how it is “blown out of proportion”. The individuals involved made explicit public threats to withhold/deny service based on the fact that they didn’t get the special consideration they felt that they were entitled to; it is hard to blow that out of proportion in my mind.
I have a major problem with public safety personnel who feel that they are entitled to special benefits/discounts/consideration because they are public safety personnel. What we are entitled to is being treated with a modicum of respect (meaning we shouldn’t be assaulted, harassed, or otherwise accosted) while doing or jobs, the satisfaction of helping people in need, and for those that due this as a career receiving our pay and benefits; that is it. If you do this for free (which I have done) then you get the satisfaction alone as the payoff. If anyone is looking for anything more than this they should probably be looking for some other line of work or somewhere else to volunteer their time.
These individuals need to be held accountable for their behavior. Behavior such as theirs undermines all of us and creates doubt about us in the community. I for one am grateful to hear that the Chief is addressing the issue in an open and head-on manner.
Dave,
I don’t disagree with your assertion. Discipline however is supposed to be corrective in nature, not punitive. I think that lighter measures could have been dispersed, yet still be effective and satisfied whatever players were pushing the story – most likely the media. This is sensationalism, not journalism.
This is nothing more than common young person banter. “If that guy would have said that to me, I would have knocked him out”, for example. There is not a doubt in my mind that they were merely talking it up among of firefighters and had no true intentions of ill will.
Some of the discipline is simply to harsh.
Robert Kramer,
I don’t think in what I have written I was passing judgment on the what the discipline was but rather how it was all handled. If termination was not recommended the chief should be able to articulate and being willing to defend why that decision was made. I saw that done very effectively in Sacramento when some firefighters were caught drinking on duty. It’s a case I talk about in my presentations.
Statter
ALEX VFF:
Suspension, Demotion, termination, all are minor punishments considering:
2010 Maryland Code
CRIMINAL LAW
TITLE 6 – CRIMES AGAINST PROPERTY
Subtitle 1 – Arson and Burning
Section 6-107 – Threat of arson.
§ 6-107. Threat of arson.
(a) Prohibited.- A person may not threaten verbally or in writing to:
(1) set fire to or burn a structure; or
(2) explode a destructive device, as defined in § 4-501 of this article, in, on, or under a structure.
(b) Penalty.- A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor and on conviction is subject to imprisonment not exceeding 10 years or a fine not exceeding $10,000 or both.
Mack
“Ill gladly put your fire out on tuesday, for a cheeseburger Today”
Please remember, less than a week ago the Chief, Officers, and Firemen of the BAVFC and surrounding companies in Harford County, responded to a F1 tornado hitting the area, with multiple injured and transported and hours searching the disater area in the rain and storms, as well as Bel Air Volunteers Handling some 8,000+ combined fire and EMS calls a year covering 68 some square miles of respone area. The Chief, and Board are handling the situation well and should be trusted with the review and disciplinary actions to follow. It is a shame that one news report about a few members running their mouths can destroy such good will and public image. “it takes years to build a reputation, and seconds to lose it” is the old saying. As Dave always points out, when it hits the Facebook social media forum.. its exactly that, Social media, and can come back to bite you in the ass. Good time for everyone to review their own companies Social Media policies and think about implimenting one if possible. Stay Safe all, and dont put your name to something unless your willing to back it up or say it in the public square, some things are better said in the crew room, than online.
Dave Smith, Fallston VFC
This isn’t about getting free stuff. This is about a part of a community (Sonic) who has said, “Police and military mean something, but not the fire department.” by offering discounts to certain civil service, but not others. As a firefighter, I would feel slighted too. Especially after the tornado a week before. This happens all over the country, and I always feel it is a slap in the face. For that, I say “boo” to the local Sonic. If they are going to say “thanks” to the local civil service people, say it to all of them.
Now, with that being said, I do not agree with what those people did to “voice their opinion”. To imply that they are not going to do their job, or worse, because of not getting free stuff is of a mob mentality. The chief is right to be as harsh as he was. Is it is his job to 1) keep the fire department in good graces with the community as a whole, and 2) make a very clear statement to all his employees (including volunteers) that things like that will not be tolerated.
Threatening the business and the public over a $3 hamburger is ridiculous. But, these same threats are allowed and accepted throughout the US in every political compaign for increased taxes for funding and raises for firefighters and hefty pensions.
When will Harford County Government put the fire study into action and hire career staffing that won’t beg for discounts at local burger joints.
So you are saying career guys never do nothing to discredit their department. And career is better than volunteers.
Unfortunately this is not a career/volunteer issue; I have seen both solicit special consideration. I address it when I see it, but I know it happens.
My policy is that I decline discounts offered when I am in uniform. If the other party is insistent I will relent so as not to make a scene or cause hard feelings, but I always let it be clearly known that I am not expecting or soliciting special consideration. Probably about 50% of the time I end up getting the discount anyway but my conscious is clear, and it is clear to the offering party that I did not expect or demand the consideration.
Regardless, I firmly believe that no one should, career or volunteer, ever ask for a personal discount under any circumstances when in uniform. If one is offered that is one thing, but to solicit one is completely unacceptable; to demand one via threats or intimidation is absolutely grounds for discipline.
Discounts offered or solicited to support official organizational activities are a whole different matter, but they must be handled with care too.
This really has nothing to do with a fire study.
WEST PHILIDELPHIA BORN AND RAISED
I have a feeling these are college age members…the ones that smoke their helmets over the campfire to look cool.
The actions of 10 minutes can define the reputation of 1000 years…Once you say it, you can’t take it back. Immaturity and an extreme sense of entitlement is obvious here.
One of the first things that should be POUNDED into a rookie’s head is that they are to NEVER expect and ESPECIALLY NEVER to ask for: special treatment, discounts or consider themselves higher than the average joe. You may or may not take generosity as it comes but never EVER demand it. It’s unprofessional, unbecoming and makes us all look bad.
We don’t do this job for a discount, and if YOU do… GTFO. BTW if you’re eating at sonic on the regular, I’m not sure how much you’re worth on a fireground anyways, maybe so not much of a loss for the BAVFD.
I agree with Dave, swift and hard punishment will leave a lasting impression to ALL members, current and future… don’t mess with the reputation.
By no means am I a rookie. I do not ask, or expect discounts for the career I have chosen. The resentment I have built over time is seeing that people/communities countrywide feel the fire department is not as appreciated as other civil service positions. No matter what profession people are in, everyone wants to feel they are appreciated. In this case, Sonic made it very clear their “appreciation” is to police & military only. Very poor on their part, especially since I’m sure the fire dept was keep in the help of the tornado that past through the week before.
That being said, it is something I do not complain about to the community. I keep it to within the fire service community, like voicing it here. There is a big difference between letting out feelings to other people in your profession, and attacking/intimidating the people you serve.
The firefighters should never have said the things they did, even if they felt slighted. The chief was right to take the actions he did.
Can you get fired or demoted or dismissed for making a joke? The answer of course is yes.
You probably always could, in certain circumstances. But now you can print emails and take screen captures of Facebook postings.
And don’t confuse speech protection with reputation protection. There is a greater good here…
The Chief made his decision.
Sounds like Bel Air has an appeal process involving the Board of Directors.
The parties involved have the right to utilize that process if they have an issue with the Chief’s decision.
Historically firemen worked for insurance companies, the fire would not be extinguished unless that establishment or home was insured. Agents would stand outside with water at the ready and waiting for you to agree to pay for their insurance. Rival companies would show up with the same intention leading to fights (where the tradition of rivalry between departments comes from (loosely)) Times have LONG since changed. Whether or not they are volunteer or career they agreed to help protect life & property. They signed up to do this job..nobody forced them too- this isn’t the draft.
When you volunteer for something you aren’t looking for handouts in return. You don’t volunteer at a homeless shelter expecting them to give you a carwash while you’re in the food kitchen.
Police & military presence (in uniform or with a vehicle) has proven to be a deterrence of crime – which is another reason police get discounts on housing if they have a take home car. The ones who have a sense of entitlement are usually the young inexperienced ones with a hero complex…. they are the ones the senior members need to mold into humble firemen. Do RIGHT, do what you need then maybe then you’ll get what you want.
BTW. Go under your facebook privacy settings, Edit TIMELINE settings, Edit who can see your posts and who can tag you with or without you permission.
IMHO – it was a stupid remark made without thinking it through, made by an immature person that didn’t realize the consequences.
At some point here someone has to argue FREEDOM OF SPEECH! This is probably not the right subject to argue it over however the thought is still the same. People have a right to express their opinions, via mouth or FB its all the same.
On a different note, how does a VOLUNTEER get suspended? To me that makes no sense. You are being punished so you arent allowed to volunteer your time. So that means they wont have to get up in the middle of the night for bs calls, they wont have to go to some boring training put on by someone that probably doesnt have a clue what they are talking about, and they get to spend time doing the stuff they dont usually get to do because of the FD…….
My suggestion, take the 4 weeks off to find a new hobby. One that pays, so you dont have to look like a fool bitching about not getting a handout!
You sir have never been to Bel Air Maryland and would not understand. Pride,tradition, honor are still held in high regard, that may account for their training and performance which is as good as anywhere, volunteer or career. It does help that many of their members are career and many also have deep roots in the community with generations of service. For full disclosure I am not or have never been associated with this department.They have had my back quite a few times though.
Yeah, freedom of speech give you the right to express your opinion. However, you can (and usually will) be held responsible for any foolishness or stupidity involved in that opinion.
As an example, can you exercise your freedom of speech to publicly rant that “those buildings are garbage and we should burn them all down”?? And then, when they erupt in flames one night, act surprised when the guys with the badges come looking for you?
You have freedom of speech, but you also have the responsibility to be held accountable for that speech.
One of the great things about this country is that we’re all entitled to our opinions.
Another great thing is that we’re all entitled to our opinion of everyone else’s opinion.
It’s just that you can’t expect to not be held accountable if you publicly rant about your opinion.
Do I think the fellas should get the Das Boot, NO. However life should be real hard for them, public apology, go to the State prison and meet with Arsonists and see how good life is there for them :/ Doing all the crap station work for a year and so on. I believe in second chances, however with that I believe in hard love. It builds character, and if the brothers really are on the job to serve they will bounce back and learn from their mistakes. Facebook, Twitter is a game changer, be careful what you post ya’ll.
Like I stated BAVFC is a premier department in a sea of mediocrity. I sure somewhere down the road these individuals will get another chance if they really express that desire to do the right thing. Discipline is paramount and expected with this group as pride and reputation rules once again.
From what I’m seeing is;
Chief Hopkins is doing “Progressive Discipline” as appropriate to the incident as well as confronting the issue in the media
head on as opposed to denying it.
Vollies – Take a fire truck and wear your gear to get hamburgers.
Really??
Facebook making people print stupid comments daily.
Ok, I’ll say it: TWO towers out of ONE station?? REALLY??
9 volunteers are receiving punishment. Of those 9, 1 made the post & 2 made delayed response comments. The person making the dumpster threat is not a member. The other 6 are also receiving punishment for having ANYTHING to do with the post. That includes: questioning sense of entitlement, also disagreeing with post, suggesting a letter be written & questioning why they wouldn’t offer.
I have heard nothing but negativity from BAVFC since they started commenting on this issue. Has anyone heard them mention that these are top responders? No. Has anyone heard them mention that this surprises them because these are good volunteers? No. Just how embarrassed and sick they are. HEY, how’s that brotherhood working out for you?
The ONLY reason the public knows about this is because one of their own members decided to forward this private conversation to the media, using a fake name. Guess he sought immunity in the whole deal….
Hey Dave you think the media had anything to do with the fact that these guys are getting railroaded. Remember we are no quilty until we are forced to sue. By then damage is done. The media needs to have a little more responsibility in the matter.
So this is the media’s fault? Really. You might want explain that a little more to me. I have no problem criticizing the news media when they screw up. But I sure didn’t see it in this one. What am I missing?
Statter
This story was run with and these kids were hung out to dry. The department has bowed to pressure from coverage from the media. Has anyone stopped to gather any facts or did they just take the statement and run? How much of an issue do you think this would be if the media had not gotten a hold of this? Do you think these kids can get any sort of fair hearing or are they now sacrificail lambs for the overall “image of the company”? How about these kids in their small town, how ostricised do you think they will be?
I dont think anyone will here the truth of this matter, just the sensational, attention grabbing original headline.
Also the media got the original posts. Did they check to see if it was members that made the dumpster comments or did they “assume” and just put a headline up for us to jump on?
Truth,
How did the media hang them out to dry? If the media’s facts were wrong I would expect that someone would call and correct those facts. They do make mistakes and sometimes they are just honest errors with no bad intent.
When someone violates a public trust it becomes newsworthy and that’s what reporters are paid to cover. No names were mentioned in the coverage I saw. They stated the facts as they knew them that were apparently verified by the leadership of BAVFC.
I don’t know enough about who did what or what, if any, previous problems there were with any of the individuals. So I can’t judge if the punishment fits the crime. All I can judge is the message the BAVFC sent to the community when the department’s name was dragged into the mud by its own members. From what I can see it is a textbook case of how to deal with bad news.
Blaming the media is just a way to excuse stupid behavior. I saw a police officer do the same thing in that Virginia case of the officer who fired at and stabbed two firefighters and then had the charges dropped. The officer wrote in another forum that you can’t trust the media they sensationlized this. No, the person who pulled the trigger and stabbed the firefighters sensationalized the story all by himself (possibly with the help of a prescription drug).
The leadership of BAVFC has a at least two different constituencies it must serve in handling this case: the public they serve and its own members. How they dealt with the public gets high marks from me and it will be up to the firefighters to decide how well the membership was served. Not always an easy balance for chiefs and presidents.
Statter
Hopefully the Board will feel the same way alot of us do in this case when the appeal process takes place,I feel the punishment does not fit the crime and the Chief reacted instead of acted on this issue like many of us do sometimes.Next week everyone will be talking about something else that has happen and the the healing process begin’s.