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I spend a lot of time searching for the videos that you see on STATter911.com. I’m always mad at myself when I fail to find interesting ones that I should have have posted around the time they were uploaded to YouTube. This is one of those cases.
The house fire in the videos on this page was more than a year ago. It occurred in the 200 block of North Samsula Drive in New Smyrna Beach. Florida (Volusia County) in late May of 2011. I only became aware of it in recent days thanks to a STATter911.com reader. Looking at the stats for the video it appears TheBravestOnline.com discovered it last October. This is an unusual case where a neighbor had water initially and started knocking the fire, but the fire department says it had water supply problems.
It is well worth watching. The initial attack on this was done at the rear of the house by civilians. No green line for them. Something more substantial. The hose came from the pump and tank of a truck belonging to Schmidt’s Well Drilling which is located a few doors away. The men on the line took quite a ride but knocked down a good deal of fire.
The neighbors, as you will hear on the video above, were not very happy with the fire department. Volusia County Fire Services Chief Joe Pozzo told cfnews13.com that water was an issue:
The century-old home on North Samsula Drive near New Smyrna Beach burned for a couple of hours Friday. Crews from four separate fire departments rushed to the scene, but found there was no reliable water source nearby. There was a fire hydrant at Samsula Academy, which was next door to the home, but Volusia Fire Services Chief Joe Pozzo tells News 13 that hydrant was “fed by a gravity system. We were using that on the outset, but we were not getting enough pressure off that hydrant.”
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Also on STATter911 …
- It happens. But it’s not often that it’s caught on video. – April 12, 2012
- Helmet-cam: Highland Park, Michigan house fire. – July 12, 2012
- What’s going on in Florida? Scathing reports about Flagler Beach & Miami Beach fire departments. – February 8, 2013
- Pompano Beach Firefighter William Elliott dies in fall from aerial ladder. Occurred during drill at Station 61. – January 6, 2012
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DAVE! thanks for posting this because i love listening to civilian comments on fires. i love it that “vern” on the back porch couldnt put together that the pump well guys pushed the fire around before the FD got there then when they ran out of water and when the fire regains headway “it becomes the fire department who messess up the fire” (priceless). and it seems that Voulsia county need to enhance their rural response area which spotlights the need for pumper tankers in rural areas
“they had it out until the fire department arrived”…priceless
RJ, while I agree that the commentary is priceless and the civilians are generally clueless about fire tactics, they have a point. The initial attack by the well truck crew was pretty effective at stopping the progress of the fire; no, they didn’t “push it”, the fire was already in the attic before they went in service. Look at the smoke, and that should be pretty obvious.
And, the civilians have a point: The lack of aggressive interior fire attack allowed the fire to take pretty much the entire house, rather than pushing it out the back by entering the front of the house. When the crew with a line finally made an effort to attack from the outside, they DID push the fire into the front of the house. Just look at the change in conditions after they went in service.
You are absolutely right, though. Where was the pre-incident planning for rural water supply? The FD had to know this area is unprotected, since even the civilians knew it (one says so during the video). Tanker shuttle operations should have been in the response plan, I would think.
Stay Safe.
Water supply my A**! Those guys pulled up on a well ventilated fire in an older constructed home that could have been knocked down with the tank water of the first two or three arriving engines (1000-3000 gallons. The problem: LACK OF INTERIOR ATTACK!
Hey guys, listen up carefully: If we keep up this crap of not going inside and putting fires out, people are going to start wondering if we’re even worth paying tax money for. If Joe Bob & Fred can do just as good (or better) with their well-drilling water truck, then why the Fu*k should they pay for us?
FIREFIGHTING IS DANGEROUS! YOU CAN GET KILLED DOING IT! IF YOU DO IT LONG ENOUGH YOU WILL GET HURT!
Don’t like that? Well guess what? Go get a job on wall street & spend the rest of your safe life fu*king the rest of us who work for a living.
We have become our own worst enemy…..
go join the fire dept see what its like.
I was the second enging on scene of the fire. E 23 and we went in the front door with heave fire and heat but still pushed in, when we made it just past the interior stairs and second floor started to collapse on us had we had to evac! ” risk a lot to save a lot” no one home with bacon cooking in 3 gas fed ovens….
Water supply problems? Really? The old “water supply” excuse is tired and lame. Fire departments are in the BUSINESS of moving and working with water. Showing up and blaming lack of a decent water supply simply doesn’t hold…wait for it…water. Weak or non-existent hydrants? Tankers (tenders). Hose wagons. Water task forces. Call it what you want, but at the end of the day putting wet stuff on red stuff is part of why you are here.
All I see is smoke beginning to be pushed out of the eaves and move further in the house by the “expert” bystanders when they begine spraying water. In all their critisizing they do not realize they made the situation worse and moved the fire a considerably distance and took away any chance of interior attack. Love it how they always no more than the Firefighters, Paramedics, and Police Officers that respond, why call 911 if you know better?
Ugh Dave. I may have to relinquish my K.I.C. certification on this one. All I had to do was see where it was from and know that this is “the fire” that my department ran on. Suffice to say that a lot of thing s when wrong here and Mr. Murphy and his family must have signed a ride a long form…..
Not a good PR day for Chief Pozzo. I know everyone is taught to attack from the unburned side but sometimes I think other tactics will yeild better results. I would have put two lines in the rear, one on each floor and tried to stop it right there. By the time the crew worked their way through from the front the fire had grown beyond what one handline could control. But like Dave says, It’s easy to put them out on the computer keyboard!
Worthless bums. Dave and his guys did more work in 10 minutes with jean shorts and a well pump than the “fire department” did during their entire visit. Solution: take away all their gear & SCBA, and redistribute it to departments across the country who aren’t full of cowards. While they’re at it, give the Schmidt’s Well Drilling guys an AFG grant, since they did more that the Volusia Lawn Care Service to deserve it.
And for all of you “unburned side to the burned side” preachers, who seem to think that the civillians did more harm then good, I have two questions. First, what do you think that first 500 gallons of water did? All of it went into “pushing” the fire? Or perhaps it actually turned into steam and extinguished a significant portion of it, even if the resultant airflow into the uninvolved rooms caused an increase in temperatur. And second, would you not send the first due company through the front door if there was fire showing on Side A? Of course you would, and they’d knocked it down as they pushed in like we always do.
This is just a case of a department of guys who are busy looking cool and wearing the t-shirt, but lacking the set of nuts required to push down the hallway and put it out.
The neighbors did a good job of knocking down the ‘exterior’ fire. The neighbors did not do much about the interior fire that was obviously extending in the structure. At 3:25 you get a good look from the smoke pushing from the front window that this house had heavy fire through out. Maybe continuing the attack from where the neighbors started with an interior attack would have knocked down a little more fire with the water they had when they arrived. While moving towards getting a line in place from the front. But regardless this house given its age and fire conditions PTA is coming down anyway.
Dave did you stumble across this by searching for videos of yourself?
I didn’t stumble upon anything. It was sent to me by a reader a couple of days ago who I assume stumbled upon it. I have seen enough video of myself. I am fat and bald. Why would I want to look at that? I own a mirror.
Statter
Mirrors? What? I thought you were one of the ghouls, Dave? Next you’ll be telling us that they serve garlic in the cafe at your world headquarters…
lack of water supply is a little hard to believe when you see a 2-1/2″ out in the yard blasting away.
Wow. Just wow.
What the hell were these guys thinking about?
The drillers did a fine job, the “fire department”, not so much.
Ever hear of a water tender? A water tender shuttle? I stopped watching after about 14 minutes, did they ever get a line to the rear of the structure? Was the house completely destroyed?
Even if they dumped the first in engines tank into the rear, some if not all of the heat could have been taken out of it.
It sounded like a simple kitchen fire, easily controlled by the first alarm.
The drillers water looked to me like steam was being generated and all that was needed was follow up by interior lines in a timely matter
Was there any backlash from this cluster? The neighbors certainly weren’t happy with the departments performance.
Back to the basics for these guys.
Kudos to Schmidt’s Well Drilling for being good neighbors and doing the right thing.
Slack ,so true what happened to the interior attack the could have knocked down that fire in no time.
All I can say is that what they did is NOT reflective of the entire Florida Fire service..It’s sad that for 10+ minutes after arriving on scene, no water gets put on a fire
OK, because I am privy to info on this call that you are not, here’s the run down.
From Dispatch to on scene time was approx. 10 minutes
The initial alarm was 2 engines, 1 tender, 1 squad (heavy rescue), and 1 battalion.
Units arrived on scene and attempted to make entry on the “A” side.
The fire had extended from the first floor, to the second, through the ceiling.
A second alarm was requested, and companies again tried to make entry to fight the fire. This time however, they were only able to make it half way into the living room. Then command made the decision to pull companies from structure due to the building conditions.
A few minor points.
At the beginning of the video, you can see the fire blowing out of the “D” side of the building.
The roof was a tin/metal roof, which help trap the heat.
After the civilians water ran out, the fire appears to gain intensity and while they are tring to fight the fire, you can see the smoke conditions rapidly change for the worse on the “B” side first and second floor.
Could things have gone better? Of course. Was it a learning experience? Yes.
The fire occured on May 27, 2011.
Finally, as the good K.I.C.s we are, remember, we are only seeing 1 side of the fire in the first video.
No explanation needed 6444, taking a real read of the situation like expirienced firefighters do allows the IC to make an educated ( not emotion driven ) assessment and plan of attack based on water supply, manpower, and existing fire conditions on arrival. The Git R Done boys were purely doing what they thought was right and like most untrained people fell for the moth to the flame syndrome. As for the super aggressive posters , I’m sure your family will be proud to either visit you in the burn ward or bury you all because a woman left a pan of grease burning unattended, a purely preventable event. Keep buying them t shirts boys, the professionals will do as we are trained and continue to make rational decisions vs. the beast tamers ” running in when everyone else is running out” .
Pretty sure the so called “beast tamers” you labled are just guys suggesting that we provide the public with the type of service and effort we should be providing. If your going to sit here and tell me that fire was professionally handled I feel sorry for you. This fire shows glaring problems within that department in terms of pre-planning and assessing district needs (tankers, water supply), lack of motivated staff and poor tactics.
Lt. , My observation is the firefighters were way behind the 8 ball on receipt of the alarm and after apparently attempting the interior attack( which we couldn’t see because we only had a 1 side view) changed attack based on water supply and fire extension. A 10 minute response time plus who knows how long before it was discovered . I know there are other depts. that could have dumped 40 or 50 personnel and a dozen pieces of apparatus before the video was over but the end result would have been the same most likely. A quick push only to hear the ever present evac tones that all these depts. are blaring nowadays and then up with 3 or 4 aerial trucks to douche it while everybody drinks Gatorade and poses for company pics. Guess that would have made the locals feel better? Who by the way, choose to live in a long response area with no avail water and then decide to burn the bacon. Boo Hoo.
Just a normal fire if it was Fairplay, MD
Enough with the window breaking and water supply BS. Granted older homes with renovations and additions, not to mention the metal roof, can be a pain but you have got to make an attempt. Get in there and put the wet stuff on the red stuff.
Dave, Thanks for putting this one up, another example of high gloss Helmets at work. There is simply no excuse for not taking a line and putting the Fire out. A few months back you posted a video by our mutual friend Tom Yeatman of a well involved house Fire in Glenn Dale, Md. The video of that Fire should be “Required Reading” for the people who manage the troops shown in this one…. And, BTW, Glenn Dale had another one Yesterday……….
Anyone know what’s burning that caused that nasty looking greenish smoke early in the video? Can’t say I’ve seen that before.
DMc77 says
I agree McD77…
“Water supply problems? Really? The old “water supply” excuse is tired and lame. Fire departments are in the BUSINESS of moving and working with water. Showing up and blaming lack of a decent water supply simply doesn’t hold…wait for it…water.”
Piss poor excuse… design your rigs to move water “tanker shuttel” if you have rual areas… also that fire could have been put out with the water carried on the first or maybe the first two Engines if they would have put the water on the fire… Strike Da Box! K
So Dave, the conclusion is: if we don´t have unlimited water supply we can´t do our job, come on, tell to that glossy shiny white helmet chief that he can watch a lot of videos and read a lot of experiencies of firefighters putting out those kind of structural fires with no more than 2000 gallons, and without fire hydrant, just 1 or 2 fire engines and 1 tanker.
On the other hand, here in Argentina if we don´t put water on the fire ASAP, we could get killed… by the angry neighbors!!! there´s no excuse for what the did over there.
At least nobody got hurt, and nobody got dirty…..
While it is difficult to fight fire with tank water only, there are options available.
1) Dispatch tankers that dump into dump tanks. Have the pumper(s) draft that water. Start that water shuttle ASAP. Move the water to the fire scene.
2) Foam. Whether its CAFS or another type of use of foam, foam
can be a force multiplier.
If you have structures in your district that do not have a (suitable) hydrant for fire protection water supply, then water tankers /tenders are required.
I can see both sides here. Using lack of water supply is a piss poor excuse. And I have been on fires where there has been a lack of water supply. 99% of the time it was lack of planning by the IC. The other 1% was a result of frozen hydrants that can’t be predicted. It happens.
Sure the well driller did a nice job of keeping the fire knocked down, to an extent. I think it is safe to say that they did not hit the seat of the fire to really knock it so a department can go interior. I would say they definitely pushed heat, smoke and likely fire from where they were attacking. The video shows that.
I also have to wonder how long it was before someone called 911. 10 or 11 minutes for even the chief to arrive is a looong time. Maybe he was out of position. Maybe someone didn’t call 911 right away. That fire was pretty well advanced for a “pan of grease”. Been to plenty of those types of calls as well. We can also have a very extended response time to some of our jurisdiction.
Last, this was in an old house, I’m going to guess balloon frame. I’m going to guess a lot of voids as well. Add this to the well guys pushing the fire (I know, you don’t push a fire….IF you hit the seat, they weren’t), an extended response, and poor planning for water supply, there isn’t much that could have been done better. At least from what we can see.
I think there could be a little more slack cut to the department here.
Ok, I guess some of you didn’t read what I’d posted. Please go back and look at it. A tanker was dispatched on the first alarm. The first video only shows the rear of the structure. Companies were making entry in through the “A” side after they arrived. The second video clearly states 45 minutes later. The closest tender to that call, was 10-15 miles away. Not much can be done about that. Additional tankers/tenders were called. I’m not sure why you guys think we didn’t call for any.
It took roughly 10 minutes for the first engine to arrive. How much headway did that give the fire?
While I appreciate the efforts of the civilians, look at the smoke and fire conditions change on the side and second floor while they are attempting to put it out and after they run out of water.
As I said before, could it have gone better? Yes. Did we learn from it? Yes.
From the looks of the part of the house that was not on fire, it appeared to be about 40 + years old. The point is—— if the structure has been on the lot for 40 yeas, that means the fire department had 40 years to plan to protect it.
Here’s a prime example of where fire department leaders and city managers had a chance to develop a plan for fire mitigation in areas with poor or no water supplies. It would appear that no one got off top dead center and did anything.
A great example of no planning. From the number of pieces of apparatus on the scene and the amount of FF’s, funding doesn’t seem to be a problem. Planning does.
And, I think the well guys did a good job and the civilians are right.
I bet those citizens cussing the fire department would have even more to say if their locality raises there taxes to put in hydrants and or purchase more/ larger tankers and build a fire station closer. Want better services, pay up! Or shut up.
Volusia County fire has two on every engine and 3 on the four squads we have.
A most lively discussion! I’d say that:
- Had Dave and the crew done nothing, the house would have been engulfed by the time the apparatus arrived.
- Had Dave been a trained firefighter, his drilling rig might have been used more adeptly to limit interior spread. Tough to say if it would have made a difference in the end though.
- While the bystander comments may not have been fully justified, they were not entirely irrational. To the undtrained observer in the heat of the moment, the fire department visibly did little upon arrival which might inspire confidence. A methodological entry through the front door when the back of the house is rapidly being devoured by heavy fire (which they watched Dave suppress once) could easily be construed as a lack of competence or concern. Indeed, even some in this forum have questioned the tactic. Can we fault the bystanders for seeing things as they did?
We’ve all seen citizen videos of fires in which it appears that nothing is being done to fight the fire – until the camera happens to accidentally catch a glimpse of several lines going in the door. The public expects to see us put water on the fire, and if they can’t see us doing so, they don’t think we’re doing anything.
Years ago I was at a fire at which one FD member was judiciously putting water (with a booster line) on the smoke pushing out of the eves… But, hey – he was doing something!