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Above is an apology currently on the wall of the Facebook page of Brad Alexander, a 12-year member of Mississippi’s Columbus Fire & Rescue Department along with 19 messages of support . Alexander, a former rookie of the year for the department, resigned because of a post he made on Facebook that has since been taken down. Sarah Fowler from the The Dispatch reports two other firefighters and a cop who all ”liked” the comment face disciplinary action. The incident is expected to be part of an executive session for the mayor and city council tonight:
The original post has since been taken down but Alexander reportedly made statements regarding a call where a 2-year-old child was hit by a car. In the post, Alexander allegedly stated the child was unattended and questioned the location of the child’s mother.
Alexander reflected fondly on his time with the department and had a message for the citizens he swore to protect.
“Any citizens of the citizens of Columbus should never question the Fire Department’s ability, it’s the best in the state,” he said.
Read the entire article
Also on STATter911 …
- Hit ‘Like’ on Facebook & be suspended for 30 days. If you don’t believe me just ask two firefighters & a cop in Columbus, Mississippi. – September 5, 2012
- A must read update: The Facebook post from Columbus, MS that caused veteran firefighter to resign. Three others get long suspensions for hitting “Like”. – September 17, 2012
- UPDATED: Scores of firefighters in DCFD garb show for mayor’s speech. No comment from Chief Ellerbe on spokesman Lon Walls’ claims that previous protest was ‘racist act’. – February 7, 2012
- Lancaster fire union says Mayor’s report took comments about volunteers out of context. Read IAFF Local 319′s response. – March 13, 2012
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Someone needs to call out these unfit parents. I highly doubt this is an isolated incident in this town. He’s probably frustrated at the fact that no one is doing anything about these situations.
I agree, however…ultimately it is not the responsibility of firefighters/medics on the scene to make assumptions on where the parent was at the time of the accident, that is what LEO’s do. It’s one thing to talk about it among your brothers and sisters, but when you go and post it on Facebook for all the world to see, you’re just asking for trouble. Have we not learned ANYTHING over the past couple of years? How many people are going to be forced to resign because of the stupid things we post on social media?
Open mouth, insert foot, kiss career goodbye. It’s unfortunate.
You are going to lose good fire fighters and police officers for this. Yes ,he clearly made mistake by posted his feelings but I want to know where were the parents. Regardless of his statements,the lives these men and women could save would be more beneficial than having them fired. I am a nurse and I am very careful of what I post but there are days when I would like to let it all go. Good fireman and police are hard to find and I hope this city rethinks over.Liking something doesn’t make someone a bad person and deserve to be punished. Please get a grip on this and realize that your city needs good fire protection.
I concur, what is cnfrontational about it? Let me guess – someone made him a racist?
When did we become a society that followed face book/MySpace/twitter as gospel if you read it?? Many many of us have had it with the people we are sworn to serve, my question is did he act professional and give proper care on scene??? If that answer is yes then what is the point of all of this except that the days of saying what is on your mind is over in this grand old country and that is a shame. Is it the best idea to comment?? We all know that answer, I always refer to what I was told as a probie and that was your comments should sound something like this “It was extremely hot in there and everyone did a fantastic job” or “Calls like this remind me of why I do what I do” or “no Comment sorry”. They are your three nothing more nothing less!!! Oh and yes they still hold true today even as a Capt Stay safe
Not to defend the mother, but before we go casting rocks at her, we should probably know the entire story. We don’t even know what this guy posted.
Anyone who has been in Fire/EMS/Police for more than a week knows what the news reports, and what actually happened, are often very, very different.
They need to contact their local ACLU…presently they’re working on getting a ruling that hitting “like” on facebook is Free Speech…I wouldn’t apologize for anything….speak your mind…People don’t like to hear the truth…it hurts too much….just look at some of the commenters here on Statter…ha
Once again facebook strikes again. All departments should adopt strict social media policies and if you feel the need to have a facebook page, then it should in no way represent your fire department.
MIKE: what happens if you dont indicate that you work for the FD on your FB page BUT people know where you work and you get busted for commenting anyway because somebody really knows who you are and where you work?
thats the problem i have with most social media. most of the posters here use a nickname or state or partial dept nickname. Does that empower your bossess to come after you if you comment on a FD social media site and they dont like what you say?
and how is having an alternative opinion about what your department does (or did) insubordination? what you “say” is not indicative of if you are not going to follow orders, its just an opinion
No. Strict social media policies are the issue, not the fix. I didn’t sign anything saying I would forfeit my rights as a citizen because I am a firefighter.
If it’s not posted from a City computer, it’s none of the City’s business what I think or believe in. We are hired to do a job during work hours. Outside of that is no e of the FD’s business.
I guarantee a lot more harsh statements about this situation were made inside of fire stations. Big deal, he questioned where the mother was. I bet the Chief disciplining the guy asked the same question.
Robert Kramer,
You have some very clear lines in your assessment of this. The problem is in reality today as it concerns the legal side of it, things aren’t so clear. A lot of people are fighting to get their jobs back because they are using your guidelines.
Statter
I understand Dave, but the posters recommendation was for ALL departments to “adopt strict social media policies”.
I agree that the best way to stay out of trouble is to be silent, but I think that it is pitiful that this is the extent that it has gotten to. Even the IAFF is putting out info about what “not to say on FB. If hat is the short term to keep folks out of trouble – okay, but I hope that broad legal challenges are being developed to protect our rights and citizens and individuals.
I feel that this web site should be taken off the net it has worked in some ways but it has caused many problems for quite a number of people as far as I’m conserned its useless.
I agree D Schaefer. Absolutely useless. Good to see you aren’t reading it. Only an idiot would read something as stupid as this crap. You are way too smart for that.
Statter
I’m not reading this blog, either.
My cat posted this.
You feel? Or you believe?
You feel with your fingers or other parts of your skin.
More PC garbage run amok. lol
Unless you are referring to emotional feelings in which case they are not based on facts.
The more I think about it, I am offended by the improper use of the word feeling. So I agree Dave, take this blog down.
Next thing you know I’ll have to “reach out” to my counselor.
Thanks for the comments Dave.
D Schaefer,
Were you talking about taking Facebook or STATter911.com off the web? I am fine if you want to do both. Just wanted to clarify what you meant.
Statter
Dave,
Are you sure D Schaefer isn’t referring to Facebook being useless and should be removed from the web?
Just a thought…
Dave G
Best comment on this blog.
Yes, it is useless.
Sorry to hear to this incident and outcome. Wonder how other public employees are faring with social media controversies such as these?
Now for a more clinical (crass?) question. Is resignation the best thing in these “my post caused a controversy” situations? Is it the right thing?
Do you stand a better chance at regaining your job, through an appeal process? Or if/when applying for your next public safety/public sector job?
Dave this is a subject that had gotten alot of press lately and while i understand that when you speak and happen to be a member of a public safety dept, what you say can be judged, i also have a problem with what people say being used as grounds for termination.
i understand that the courts are deciding if a “facebook like” by someone is sufficient grounds for someone to be dismissed from their department if it goes against what the chief, mayor, commissioner thinks) about what somebody OTHER THAN YOU has commented on. Whats next, who you vote for?
i can see and agree that speech that is slander,derigertory,threatenng or an outright LIE could be grounds for diciplining an employee but ASKING A QUESTION about an incident or COMMENTING on a situation that does not directly “out” a victim by name or location (espically if the incident is over), how is that grounds for dismissal.
I have allways believed that “commenting” on a subject that the media has covered makes the incident PUBLIC CONCERN therefore “available” for public comment with the previously mentioned restrictions in place. but commenting on a subject not in the public domain, you take your chances and it would be wise for you to do that anonymously
If it becomes a “crime against you employer” to comment about your job, it wont be long before it will be a crime to comment about something else
a teacher was diciplined for commenting on FB about the behavour of a student by initals only and was outed by a school adminstrator who went to the parent of the child instead of the school board, how do you think that played out?
There is a balance there somewhere. I am not sure where and I am guessing, in my non-lawyerly way, that case law hasn’t completely caught up with the digital world.
I encourage everyone to stay current with Curt Varone’s FireLawBlog.com. This continues to evolve and Curt watches it closely from a legal standpoint. In my discussions with Curt, Chip Comstock and others it’s clear that everyone needs to get out of their heads that no matter what you can say or do anything you want on Facebook/Twitter/Internet related to your employer. Jobs are being lost because of that notion. If you want to stake your career on the idea that the courts will eventully vindicate you, feel free. I am not sure that is a good career move.
Statter
Dave,
Just a thought, but you would think this could somewhat mirror photo policies in that anything that does not divulge information due to your “special access” as a firefighter should be fair game.
If you don’t out name, address, etc. and just ask a generic question, what have you violated? Same as you can photo and publish whatever you can get into your viewfinder or lense from public domain.
This is “political correctness” and the theory that citizens are “customers” of the FD, which gets translated into “the customer is always right”. Bullshit. People generally don’t call the fire department after they or someone else has done something smart, so don’t get pissed off when the people you call to clean up your mess have questions or comments. I didn’t give up any rights of any other citizens when I became a firefighter.
Where is the outrage when the AT&T guy , the plumber, the cable guy, the reporter, etc when they all ask the same question on Facebook?
Robert Kramer,
There is a lot we don’t know about this one. Like what he wrote and how he identified himself. Perosnally I’m far from having an opinion on this case because there is so much we don’t know.
Do you know exactly what was written to be able to form such an opinion?
You didn’t necessarily give up any rights as a citizen to become a firefighter, but more and more we are seeing cases where those rights you believe you have may be given up to keep that job as a firefighter. Again, it is going to be interesting how a lot of these cases play out in the legal system. As I have suggested, I think it isn’t wise for your job security to assume you can just say and do as you please on the Internet and social media.
If you told me a few years ago that a government organization can fire or discipline an employee based on what they “like” on Facebook I would have said you are crazy. Personally I think it is outrageous, but it doesn’t matter what I think.
Again, I urge everyone to read things like Curt Varone’s FireLawBlog.com to make sure you know what you think you know. It has all been an eye opener for me.
Statter
Good points Dave. I was basing my opinion on what was reported that he said, but we don’t know exactly what or how it was worded.
I still say that any discipline for your personal feelings or beliefs hidden behind the fact that you may have offended so done is ridiculous. How long will it be before what is acceptable or not is divided along party lines and what is allowed is determined by the political affiliation of the Mayor at the time?
Additionally, ones opinion that differs from a Supervisors is not wrong. It is just not the same. I have been in more than one situation where a Supervisor thinks I made a poor decision, because it is not the same one they would have made. That by itself, and maybe even with some more stuff, means nothing.
Good talk. I feel like we’re friends now….
Oh don’t go that far Robert. It will take all the fun out of it.
Just posted the latest. Note Columbus does not have a Facebook policy -
http://statter911.com/2012/09/05/hit-like-on-facebook-be-suspended-for-30-days-if-you-dont-believe-me-just-ask-two-cops-a-firefighter-in-columbus-mississipi/
The 4th U.S. Court of Appeals states that’s likes on facebook are covered under the the 1st ammendment ” freedom of speech ” and the ACLU supports this sounds like someone is going to federal court.
Smart guy, maybe you didn’t realize it, but any employer can limit an employee’s freedom of speech.
The first amendment refers to restriction of speech by gov’t, and even then, SCOTUS has ruled that speech can be limited for “public good”. As in yelling “Fire” in a theatre or threatening POTUS.
Otherwise, HIPAA would be unconstitutional. Limiting of speech to the press except for the chief or PIO would be unconstitutional.
I’m sure the next debate will be “but they are employed by the gov’t” so that would fall under the first amendment. Good luck with that.
To Dave Statter,Dave g,Mark, I feel Statter 911 is great site you can learn a lot from the many videos and comments that I have looked at. Being an ex fireman I see something new each day.I ment in the above posting that FACEBOOK needs to take off the web period not this site.
Totally misunderstood. Sorry for my sarcastic remark. But I am fine with anyone who want to take down STATter911.com too.
Statter
Is there a greater chance of issues with your employer when your FB profile advertises your association with them versus a vanilla profile that doesn’t list your FD?
Legeros, I think (feel…believe…LOL) your chances of getting your job back through an appeal are much better if you’re terminated rather than voluntarily resigning. It’s a bit easier to get an arbitrator to believe you were wronged if you’re not the one who did the “wronging”. In a similar situation, I’d have to go with the “make them fire me” angle.
Legeros….I can attest from firsthand experience and by one who was subjected to improper workplace discipline for what I posted on thewatchdesk and other things, he’s better off contacting local ACLU in his area….they work much faster than any appeal process through an employer or attorney for one who’s brought civil action against the employer….
Mark…try educating yourself on the 1st Amendment before you lecture anyone on here on what they can post or say….stick to what you probably know best…like..ummm…reading a building codes book or watching safety videos…..
Robert Kramer,
If you are the same Kramer that your posts remind me of, you were right. Greasy got me on something just as ridiculous.
I do not know whether it’s just me or if perhaps everybody else experiencing issues with your website. It appears like some of the text on your content are running off the screen. Can someone else please comment and let me know if this is happening to them as well? This could be a issue with my browser because I’ve had this happen before.
Kudos