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Reporter Justin Engel at Michigan’s Bay City Times has been taking a very close look at a proposal to merge the police and fire departments in Bay City. The idea of creating a public safety officer model has police and fire union leaders very vocally leading the charge from opposite sides of this battle. The police, represented by the Police Officers Association of Michigan (POAM), are supporting the merger as are the police and fire chiefs in Bay City. The IAFF is opposing it.
Engel’s latest article in the series titled “Price of Protection” was posted this morning and it clearly shows the tension between police officers and firefighters. It should be noted that police officers in Bay City changed their union to POAM from the Fraternal Order of Police (FOP) about a year ago. The FOP opposes such a merger of jobs.
The six paragraphs below give you a good idea of how ugly this is getting. Click here to read the entire article:
For members of the International Association of Firefighters (IAFF) — a group that opposes the idea — the police union’s endorsement stirs resentment in people such as Kurt Wagner, president of Bay City’s firefighters union.
Wagner and other firefighter union members across the state say the police union’s leaders are the architects of the cross-training public safety model, a practice firefighter representatives say is aimed both at raiding their department budgets and upping police union membership.
One of the police union’s top statewide officials, meanwhile, says without firefighter cooperation in implementing the public safety officer model in certain municipalities across the state, fire unions won’t have a future in Michigan.
“I’m not afraid to say it,” said Dan Kuhn, the police union’s business agent. “The IAFF is martyring their guys over this issue.
“It’s probably going to lead to the elimination of more firefighters in the state.”
Kuhn said the firefighters union stands in the way of a necessary “evolution” in public safety, driven by dried-up municipal funds no longer able to sustain police and fire departments at long-accepted sizes.
Also check out the links below to Engel’s other excellent articles, particularly the interviews with the president of the firefighters’ union and the police union president.
Bay City to revisit police, fire plan
MLive examines other communities that adopted merged police, fire
Firefighter leader opposes proposal
Police union president supports plan
Readers, commissioner argue whether merge already a done deal
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Also on STATter911 …
- MI firefighter alone inside house fire is burned. Incident brings up questions about Benton Harbor’s public safety officer model. – March 15, 2013
- Bah! Humbug! Did DC’s mayor play Scrooge for cops & firefighters over the holidays leaving them out of the holiday bonus? Vince Gray says no. Unions say yes. – December 25, 2012
- Baltimore union confirms two firefighters behind toilet based artwork of mayor & fire chief. Dispute within IAFF local over handling of the incident. – August 7, 2012
- News reports: No ambulance available for DC motor cop struck. 18 minute wait for PGFD ambulance. FOP head again blasts fire chief. – March 6, 2013
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This is so sad. I thought this bull %^&$ was decided many, many years ago. IT DIDN’T WORK THEN AND WON’T WORK NOW.
Think about it. When this country was first founded, what was one of the first functions of government? That’s right, protection.
Along the way look how government has grown and the waste along with it. I am conservative, I am a taxpayer and I am all about cutting government. Public Safety is not one of those things. I am praying for all those firemen. I hope it does not go through. Stay together.
Agreed No 1. I am all about limited gov’t. Especially when it comes to gov’t reducing their main responsibility–public safety.
However, I think MI is probably the leader in PSO agencies. Not sure that it works well for all of them, but it can work. The way it works is when their is very little crime–virtually all the cops do is write traffic citations and jaywalking tickets–and limited fire calls. East Grand Rapids has both of these situations and it works for them. EGR is a small, affluent suburb of GR. Emphasis on small and affluent. They have basically no violent crime and maybe 1 structure fire every couple years. No industry, only retail and a hospital. They always receive mutual aid on any structure fire. There are also plenty of cops from surrounding muni’s if they need help. Is it right?
I have no idea of the crime in Bay City, but they are relatively close to Flint. Nor about structure fires, but they are close to Saginaw. Both of those cities have crime and structure fire calls through the roof, respectively.
There are others near here with similar statistics. I’m not saying it is great, but if I were a taxpayer in the above mentioned city, I would be OK with it. It would be far better than a fully staffed FD that barely gets out of the station before a cop\FF arrives on scene of any auto alarm and cancels the apparatus. (I am not kidding, they are are dispatched by the same dispatcher as I am)
I don’t have any first hand knowledge about PSO’s. I can’t really say whether that type of system works or not. I would suspect it depends on the jurisdiction and how that particular PSO system is set up. Reading the article, it states that Bay City FD has 9 personnel on duty per shift. That’s to protect 35,000 people in 10 square miles. That certainly doesn’t seem like overkill. And they’re saying that the PSO system will eliminate between 15 and 25 Firefighter positions over the next several years, so I’m guessing their plan is to go down to just drivers? Are they then going to add Police Officers so they have more cops on the street per shift to cover police calls and Fire/EMS calls? Or are their cops that under worked that they have a lot of free time? And they’re projecting saving 2 million dollars from the municipal budget. As far as the savings go, first thing, prove it, because in my experience, most times these projected savings are over inflated. Next, how much does a 2 million dollar cut in the municipal budget save the average homeowner? That’s the question that most of these jurisdictions who propose mergers and layoffs don’t answer, mainly because, in many cases, it doesn’t save the average homeowner that much. If the average homeowner is going to save several hundred dollars a year in property taxes, then they may support it, but usually, the average homeowner saves way less than that, if anything. And as far as POAM is concerned (which I never heard of before this) just more cops who couldn’t pass the Firefighter test.
So if this happens, does that mean we could pull people over in a tiller truck and issue citations? Do the FFs have to go to the police accadamy? O,o, do I get a take home cruiser. No I want a take home pumper.
Cops may be slow, but they’re not stupid.
As my Uncle (a highway patrolman) once asked me,
“What do cops and firemen have in common.??”
“HIS Answer: They all want to be firemen.!!!”
Think about it …
In order to justify our existence, obtain a larger slice of the budgetary pie
and increase the union membership, the FS began to absorb the EMS Provider-Transport
function within communities. This meant the demise of many private companies
and the loss of 1000′s of jobs.
In these tough economic times, we can hardly fault the cops for exercising the same tactic.
(monkey-see, monkey-do)
On the bright side, this change will cause fewer cop cars
to be parked in from of the fire hydrants.!!!
Times are a changin’, kids, and it should be quite a ride.!!!
Having worked in an area that has a town who deploys the PSO system, I can tell you that the FD receives the short end of the stick. The PSO Department Head is always from the Police Side. They run two fireighters on an engine and their truck is not staffed. Two PSO’s per district are “assigned” to the engine but only have to respond for confirmed structure fires. However, there alway seems to be a correlation between fires and traffic violations. The PSO’s receive minimal fire-rescue training. And, if you haven’t guessed by now…. The focus is always given to the law enforcement and the fire-side is always the red-headed stepchild.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Department_of_Public_Safety
Maybe here in DC we can get MPDs union to merge with the EMS union, the officers can ride to the hospital with all the scumbags we pick up all the time!
“Wagner and other firefighter union members across the state say the police union’s leaders are the architects of the cross-training public safety model, a practice firefighter representatives say is aimed both at raiding their department budgets and upping police union membership.”
As opposed to cross training your firefighters as EMTs and Paramedics, a practice that is aimed at increasing the FDs budget and upping fire union membership. But thats ok, this isnt….?
Different animal.
First, many FDs who train their firefighters as EMTs and Paramedics do so because they are providing first responder EMS. This pretty much has no impact on increasing fire union membership and any increase in budget related to this typically wouldn’t be coming from another agency’s budget.
Second, typically when a FD takes over EMS transport while utilizing cross-trained personnel (as opposed to using non-FF staffing) they are replacing a non-municipal contract EMS provider rather than merging with another municipal public safety agency. Yes, this can result in an increased budget and an increase in union membership, but the level of service being provided isn’t specifically reduced.
As clearly shown in the article, the PD will benefit the most from the merger. The number of firefighters will decrease, while the number of police officers will remain the same, but take on the additional responsibility of firefighting (sometimes), essentially taking FD budget money and moving it to the PD budget. There’s no way that this set up will be able to consistently provide the same level of service on both sides. Will the cops be available when the fire call comes in? Will the number of cops responding as firefighters match the number of firefighters lost? What happens to police calls while those cops are on a fire call?
Typically, when a FD takes over EMS transport and provides both services, they add personnel, not reduce personnel to do so.
Ok we tried this in my town in NH it Failed, how are they going to be cross trained and when it comes to EMS calls and a police officer needs to do an EMS call they need to seperate the officer Job from the emts/ paramedic job? And do you really want a fire fighter with a gun or a cop with a hose? or an paramedic with a gun and a hose/ These are two almost three totaly different jobs. jack of all trades master of none.
My 2 cents from California is:
“Horsefeathers!
While both the Cities of Sunnyvale and Rohnert Park operate this type of system, their foundations were based on:
An existing Volunteer Fire Company and a Paid Police Department, which slowly took on the firefighting duties.
But elsewhere, over the years, such mergers have occurred and after a couple of years have end, back where they started from.
Cost savings? Maybe in the personnel reductions, but what about the need to back fill for cross training days?
“Pig-in-a-Poke” from my view point.
I have worked in this environment it looks good on paper. It disseminates the fire service while increasing PO’s base wage. Look at Kalamazoo. There has been no cost savings just a decrease in fire service. What about the required re-occurring training for both disciplines. How will it get done? All the technical services gone. I have been on mutual aid runs where the IC was at the end of the block directing traffic. When things go south you fall back to your comfort zone or what you know.