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How long do you think this guy would hold onto his job in the US?
In Cyprus, fire service acting chief Marcos Trangolas doesn’t believe a woman’s place is in the fire station. In an interview this week, the man in charge of about 900 firefighters, including 64 women, says he wants to limit the number of women in the fire service because they can’t meet the physical requirements for the job,
The quote in our headline was taken from the headline for the story on the website of Cyprus Mail:
According to Trangolas, a firefighter must be able to carry 33 kilos of weight, which is the total burden of carrying the uniform, helmet, oxygen and shoes to fight fires in apartment blocks.
Another reason to carry out regular tests on members’ physical conditions is the fact that the biggest health problem faced in the service is heart attacks.
Trangolas maintained that reducing the number of women hired was not discrimination, since the mission of a firefighter demanded they be in top physical condition.
According to the article, few woman firefighters already working for the Cyprus Fire Service are fighting fires.
The most recent stats on the Cypress Fire Service I could find came from 2005 at CyprusNet.com:
It employs in total 662 officers, full time fire fighters and 14 citizens, as well as 120 part-time (volunteer) firefighters that serve the Rural Fire Stations. It maintains a fleet of approximately 115 pumps, 110 fire and rescue trucks, 6 platforms, 6 emergency vehicles, 20 auxiliary vehicles and 5 ambulances located across the island.
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Come up with fair & appropriate physical standards. If the women fail, so be it. If the men fail, so be it. Quit being politically correct and stop hiring 5″2″ 250 lb “people”. They can’t even get out of a wet paper bag. And as they age, it usually just gets worse. Bottom line, the FD shouldn’t be hiring as the last resort. And quit putting women into day or non hazardous aras just because many can’t do the job once they are hired. Look at most medium or large cities. Do the percentage. Something close to 78% of DCFEMS women employees are out of the field getting hazardous pay in a telephone answering job.
Hmmm… truth in blogging. I wonder how many career firefighters (who are women) have managed to finish out a 25 or 30 year career in the field?
burden of carrying the uniform, helmet, oxygen and shoes
Hahaha. Women shouldn’t wear shoes!
P.S. Lighten up Harvey
And some don’t have what it takes to be a fire blogger. And those standards are rock-bottom!
There are not a lot of female fire bloggers. As you can see by me the physical standards are quite rigorous. Though clearly there is no height requirement or The Fire Critic wouldn’t be allowed to do his blog.
Statter
You must be at least this tall to ride this blog…
Although there are exceptions, for the most part he is correct. Makes as much sense as Dave being a waitress at Hooters.
My wife did 25 years for Cal Fire, everything from wildland to Schedule A.
She did the whole job on an engine, several years working by herself in two different counties.
At 5’4″ and 125 pounds she was hell on wheels on the fire ground.
She retired as a Captain and was highly regarded in her Unit.
She meet and maintained the physical standards, never asked for special treatment or played the I’m just a girl card.
My last engineer prior to retirement was about the same size as my wife and was just as dedicated to the job as any guy.
I agree; man or woman, if they can’t hold up their end of the line, get rid of them.
Are you from the left coast? Have no idea what Schedule A is.
How can your wife be on an engine and work by herself in 2 different counties? Didn’t she ever hear of teamwork?
nuff said…
It has nothing to do with whether you are a man or a woman, it is your physical conditioning. I know some female firefighters who can run circles around their male counterparts. Establish standards for physical ability and stick to them, and not just at the entry level, but throughout everyone’s career.
The comments here suggest that there is a tendency to favor male Firefighters over Females. This is not right. It is also in violation of Title 9. If the Fire and EMS organization maintains an equal Health and Wellness Program for all Firefighter Applicants, and those who are already on the job. A good example is the CPAT program which brings out the Physical strength and abilities to perform skills. There must be an annual Physical Exam to ensure the Firefighter is keeping with scheduled Physical training and their own Health.
There are some real good Professional,defined as skills and abilities not by Gender Firefighters. ie;The newly appointed Fire Chief of Charleston South Carolina is a Female with a well earned Resume and Reputation as being one of the best. She’s replacing Retired Chief Tom Carr who has fallen on Ill Health. She was a Battalion Fire Chief in southern Georgia near Atlanta. She is coming from Eugene Oregon where she served as Deputy Chief for Operations. She has earned her creditionals and Respect of her peers through Hard work and Training, Education. This Female is coming into a Fire and EMS Service which was Tragically affected by the loss of the Charleston 9. She will in her own Professional Skills bring about the continued upgrading that Chief Tom Carr has started.
For those critics of Female Firefighters please keep mindful that as a TEAM Effort one of these Female Firefighters just may pull you out of a Burning Building. SAFETY FIRST, May Day, May Day, Dreaded call, this new Chief of Charleston and all other well Trained Female Firefighters whether through the rank and File and/or Promoted into Officer and Command Positions can and will do an equal job as their Male counter parts. The Primary issue here is that the Fire and EMS Organization establish and create a sustainable work environment for everyone. Good SOP’s ie; Work Place Sexual Harrassment, predjudice attitude, EEO Guidelines these are all
part of what the Fire and EMS service must be in the 21st Century Fire and EMS Delivery System.
Great. Mandate CPAT nation wide. Require all fire departments, both paid and volunteer, to test all applicants…through an indepentant facility. I’m in. Unfortunately that wouldn’t fare too well for your cause because most women can’t pass it. Then the cities won’t meet their “quotas” and the women your attempting to glorify will begin to cry discrimination and file lawsuits.
It’s a no win situation for cities. Either water down the test so your typical woman can pass or implement a legit agility test that truely resembles the expectations on the fire ground and hardly ever hire another female again. Unfortunately our dysfunctional legal system isn’t concerned about able and qualified individuals. They’re concern is finding a way to meet quotas. I’m sorry but it’s a joke.
Same goes for the written exam. Just look at New York City. It’s dumbed down to meet quotas. Most people’s argument is that you don’t need to be a math wiz to be a fireman. You don’t need reading comprehension to put out a burning building. Unfortunately they’re missing the point. You have to be able to learn, read and understand a book and apply it mechanically, adequately comprehend how a pump works, learn drug dosages and administration techniques, interpret heart rhythms, and so on….However our legal system is finding ways to get them on the job. But once they are and people realize they aren’t worth a damn physically or intelectually, there is no way to get them out. So now everyone else around them is responsible for their own job and the job of the worthless person next to them.
Sorry but your own suggestion puts and end to your cause.
I remember when Cleveland but in two standards, one for men and one for women. Not sure if it’s still the same way though. The military does the same thing. Two different standards for the same job. Doesn’t make sense to me but I guess it keeps the activists at bay.
Schedule A is a county contracting with Cal Fire for fire service, the county provides stations and equipment and funding for a given level of service, Cal Fire provides staffing.
She was assigned to an administrative unit consisting of three counties, two of which have fire depts staffed with one engineer or captain on an engine.
Harvey, your ignorance is astounding, the fact that you cannot comprehend of a county fire department with a budget only allowing for one person staffing (supported with Paid Call Firefighters)is beyond me.
The system works, it is not the best, but the tax payers are only willing to pay for a certain level of service.
I worked by myself in the winter in mountain stations, it ain’t easy, but the job gets done despite all of that.
Oh, yeah…..we do know what team work is, do you?
’nuff said….
I can understand how your wife made it 25 years from the way you describe the staffing system. She probably only ever had a small handfull of fires. The ones she did were probably surround and drown since there was only one fireman there and had to wait for others to show up.
Listen man it’s not a shot at your wife. It’s reality. I have worked with a significant amount of females over the years on a very busy department and ONLY 1 was worth a damn. Physically she was capable but her emotions preventes her from ever being fully able to performing the job adequately. I’m sorry but there is a difference between the mentality of a man vs a woman.
I also agree with some other guys on here that I am yet to see a female retire from an actual fire truck. Every one ends up in a 9-5 position because of injuries or the realization they simply can’t hang.
Anon,
You could not be more wrong.
Initial attack on a going fire by yourself is not for the faint of heart, especially prior to 2in-2out was established.
Both of her assignments in 1-0 staffed engines were in poor-suburban areas with a ratio of about 60/40 (medical aid to fire)and a call volume of roughly 250-300 calls per year at her station. Unit wide, probably 10,000 calls annually. This includes medical aids, fires of all types, haz-mats, and whatever else the Fire Gods could throw their way.
She retired off an engine at 56, mainly due to accumulated injuries making the job harder than it needed to be.
Her last assignment was in a Bay Area administrative unit on a Type 1 engine in an area that provided many challenges to the companies assigned to that location; major freeways,surf-rescue, a very serious wildland interface problem, second in to a portion of several incorporated cities, medical calls, and every type fire you can imagine.
Again, in my wife’s case, she never asked for special treatment, she did her job and moved up through the ranks on merit and experience.
I have worked with and directly supervised men and women that should not be in the fire service, just as I have worked with some of the finest female firefighters anywhere.
Standards are standards; if an employee cannot or will not meet or exceed said standards they should find another job.
I was in the fire service for 34 years, I saw the best and most certainly saw the worst in a very busy department, and having to pull a slackers weight male OR female made for difficult days.
Anonymous cites Title IX incorrectly (unless as a student in the university setting). Perhaps he/she was thinking of Title VII. Either way, the magic of the legal system is often lost on the day to day work in the fire service. While there are certainly some women who have served a long, honorable career, they are few and far between. I had a 30 plus year career in the fire service with women hired since 1976 and exactly zero served a non-disability, full retirement. Perhaps in California….but not on the east coast.
My 2 cents from Calif.
1st. Let’s let Acting Fire Chief Marcos Trangolas;
“Put Up or Shut up”
get his 33 Kg (69 lbs) of gear on and go through a CPAT or FF Comabt Challenge or their evivalent of it.
2nd. The fact that he has to go before The “Permanent Secretary” of the Justice Ministry, may end with him getting a “Pink Slip” from his acting position.
The unfortunate thing is this Clown is getting his “15 Minutes” in the media, by spouting off some ridiculous claims, he is probably violating some National Rule some where.
Harvey Glick; if you want to do some research you can go to youtube and enter:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v+6oNdpgnjQS8-“Cal Fire Who We Are”.
Very informative program.
Back around 1982, they along with the Cities of Oakland, Berkeley and the (then named) Contra Costa County Consolidated FPD, located in Plesant Hill, Calif., along with the “Federated Firefighters of California, started what what is called the “CPF/Joint Apprenticeship Training Program”
Modeled after the IAFF Apprenticeship Program it started with Labor Recruitment, Test Preparation, Hiring, Training and Retention.
At that time the “Biddle” Continuous Motion Agility Test was being used across the State, so in “FOBS” Instance both he and his wife competed in this agaility against the other test candidates.
Finally Harvey, in case you didn’t know, Oprah Winfrey has a program on the “OWN” Channel, “Lives on Fire”, which is following the “Reality” of four Cal Fire Women Firefighters in different locations in the State.
Unfortunately, you have to search the OWN TV schedule to find it. But its a good program from my point of view.
Thanx for the youtube info. It would have been a whole lot better if FOBS had just written a paragraph that explained what he was talking about. Most of the world doesn’t know “Cal Fire” or “Schedule A”. I doubt anyone on here agrees with Cyprus’ Fire Chief. I & most others just stated to be consistant /fair and equal. Just want the best people to show up when I or my relatives / neighbors / friends need help. Not a PC person. Thanks again.
“….several years working by herself in two different counties.
At 5’4″ and 125 pounds she was hell on wheels on the fire ground. She retired as a Captain and was highly regarded in her Unit.”
Guess she was highly regarded, as you said, she worked by herself! I bad, there is an “I” in teamwork.
Am sorry your manning wasn’t / isn’t better. Good luck in the mountain stations in the winter.
I think it’s absolutely ridiculous for males to sit up on their high horse as though females aren’t capable of being great fire fighters. I believe that only a few have what it takes to meet the standards and be a team member that brings a lot to the table. BUT just because you have a majority that can’t do it shouldn’t mean that you rule out the few who can. I also believe that standards should be equal; as an active member in the military and a female myself who is working on being a firefighter, i understand why the physicals standards are different for men and women but i believe that they should be changed just so the select few females who are tough enough to meet those standards can shut men up about the difference in them. There are more important issues in firefighting and i believe that anyone who joins that field has agreed to serve and protect the community the best way that they can regardless of gender. Just because you’re are a male firefighter does not mean you are a good one and vice versa. It’s 2013, open your minds to the possibility that there are women in this world who can do just about anything they set their minds to and if firefighting is one of those things then just deal with it. Like someone said earlier a female may be the one who pulls one of you or that fire chief out of a burning building one day.